The Bathroom Wall

With any tavern, one can expect that certain things that get said are out-of-place. But there is one place where almost any saying or scribble can find a home: the bathroom wall. This is where random thoughts and oddments that don’t follow the other entries at the Panda’s Thumb wind up. As with most bathroom walls, expect to sort through a lot of oyster guts before you locate any pearls of wisdom.

34636 Comments

There is a God!

And he is a plumber. The Bathroom has been flushed.

Thank you Reed.

Great!

Course, that still leaves what happens when the new plumbing acquires a big drip…

Wait, what am I saying?

Ingeborg Esbrandt said:

Hey, nice post :) - well, even though I came via Google searching for “justfaces spreadshirt” wondering why this post came up on top??? Greetings xoxo

Spammer alert!

To make one point about the previous thread. John Kwok wrote:

“Sorry Jim, but your invocation of the Ground Zero Mosque controversy is not helpful here. Incidentally there are many Muslims and Muslim Americans who oppose its construction, simply because they recognize that building it near Ground Zero is needlessly offensive to the families of the victims and the survivors of the 9/11 attack. Some of the most prominent critics - who are Muslim Americans - include Wall Street businessman Mansoor Ijaz (who tried to assist the Clinton administration in extraditing Osama bin Laden from the Sudan) and former United States Navy officer Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser.

[…]

If you are going to call Miss USA, a Muslim American, Rima Fakih, a bigot, then be my guest. Same is true for those two prominent Muslim Americans I had mentioned. Or other Muslim Americans who, like them, have spoken out against building the “Cordoba House” Islamic Center (Of course I am also against it, but am definitely not a bigot.).”

Unless YOU are a practicing Muslim your opposition to this cultural center is pure bigotry, so your saying that you’re “definitely not a bigot” is false. Your ruse of hiding behind the Muslim-Americans’ backs is the same as of the racists who think that using the n-word is OK because so many African-Americans use it. If you are a Muslim, well then, I find your views on the issue just silly, not bigoted.

Kris,

You can’t possibly know what I know.

mrg said:

DS said: Kris has certainly demonstrated that he doesn’t deserve anything more.

Actually, I was suggesting we all insult and abuse DH. If he wants to invite it, why not oblige?

We already tried that on Kris. You can only call someone an @$$hole, a bastard and crazy so many times before it gets tiresome. What’s the point of bashing me?

Kris has called me a liar for stating the obvious facts about him. We can all see what he has done, so why would he deny the stunts he has pulled? He is the one who invaded our space to attack the cause of the blog, yet he expects us to be tolerant and respectful of him no matter what he says? There is no law or principle I know that demands any such thing.

Kris said:

What you said about me is a complete lie. I didn’t start the insults and attacks. You and your asshole buddies here did. And trying to con FF with lies about me and that swill about respecting people you and they (“we”) don’t agree with is yet another one of your acts of deliberate dishonesty. You and most others here wouldn’t know what respect is if it hit you like a freight train going 60 miles per hour.

Since the statements you make about me are false, you’re a deliberate liar, according to your own standards for others. Of course your standards for yourself are completely different. How convenient for you.

The ONLY reason you and most others aren’t now viciously attacking FF is because she said she’s a woman. Even then, some of you have been pretty blunt to her, and especially rude before she said she’s a woman, even though she has been nice the whole time.

My questions to her are not an attack or a trap. They are sincere. You are grossly misrepresenting me and are just showing yourself to be the hypocritical, dishonest, delusional liar you are.

You are a seriously fucked up lunatic with delusions of godhood who needs a good ass kicking.

By the way, Mr. theological agnostic, unitarian, universalist, dis-honorable, bushido, liberal, un-scientific pseudo-skeptic, what are you going to add to or subtract from your self-created, self-serving, bogus religion tomorrow?

You just keep piling up your lies and hypocrisy Dale. You said “You do what you like, but I’m done with Kris for good.” yet you’re still bashing me and lying about me.

You also said you respect people with whom you disagree but then you say “I went after him anyway.” when you first saw me here. When I first came here I didn’t say anything that warranted you going after me.

Plus, you said you respect people with whom you disagree but then you say “I’d go after Ann Coulter if that bitch showed up here too.” So much for you respecting people you disagree with.

As usual the things you claim about yourself, and me, are false, which makes you a chronic LIAR, according to your standards for others.

You admit to slamming me a lot but of course you try to make it look like you’re a saint for doing so. Whether you or anyone else here ever accepts it or not, I’m just giving you and others shit back because you and/or they started it, either with me or someone else who didn’t or doesn’t deserve it.

I didn’t escalate the situation. You and your fellow, lying, arrogant hypocrites did.

It really cracks me up to see you guys acting exactly like some of the creationists you hate and condemn so much. You accuse and attack them for not listening and having closed minds, and for playing what you think are ridiculous games, but you do the same thing. Congratulations, you have become your enemy.

FODS

I haven’t lied about anything, you jackass! The simple fact is that you have invaded Panda’s Thumb and have been a disruptive force from the beginning and have played us like suckers. I’m not fooled by you and no one else is. Even if you were insulted by one or two people in the beginning, you could have ignored it and just responded to the ones who were being positive to you, like flowersfriend has been, but instead you started throwing shit at everyone who dared to reject your tactics. We insulted you because that seemed to be what you liked, but I get tired of that after a while. You don’t, appearantly.

If you seriously think you have made ANY positive contributions to this community here, you are even more delusional than most Creationists!

Dale Husband said: What’s the point of bashing me?

None whatsoever, but since any comments to a troll are going to produce nothing but bashing in response, that leads to what the point of the comments was.

John often fails to read for comprehension. A poor highschool education , no doubt.

Ghrom said:

To make one point about the previous thread. John Kwok wrote:

“Sorry Jim, but your invocation of the Ground Zero Mosque controversy is not helpful here. Incidentally there are many Muslims and Muslim Americans who oppose its construction, simply because they recognize that building it near Ground Zero is needlessly offensive to the families of the victims and the survivors of the 9/11 attack. Some of the most prominent critics - who are Muslim Americans - include Wall Street businessman Mansoor Ijaz (who tried to assist the Clinton administration in extraditing Osama bin Laden from the Sudan) and former United States Navy officer Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser.

[…]

If you are going to call Miss USA, a Muslim American, Rima Fakih, a bigot, then be my guest. Same is true for those two prominent Muslim Americans I had mentioned. Or other Muslim Americans who, like them, have spoken out against building the “Cordoba House” Islamic Center (Of course I am also against it, but am definitely not a bigot.).”

Unless YOU are a practicing Muslim your opposition to this cultural center is pure bigotry, so your saying that you’re “definitely not a bigot” is false. Your ruse of hiding behind the Muslim-Americans’ backs is the same as of the racists who think that using the n-word is OK because so many African-Americans use it. If you are a Muslim, well then, I find your views on the issue just silly, not bigoted.

Malchus said: A poor highschool education , no doubt.

Oh Bob, I can hear the howls now: “Set phasers to SLAUGHTER!”

Kris said:

Mike Elzinga said:

With a troll’s profile ready at hand, and with sufficient discipline on the part of the regulars, that could be cut to zero.

Profile ready at hand? What exactly does that mean Mike? Ready for what or whom? Do you have printed profiles of all the people you’ve labeled as trolls and hand them out to passersby on street corners? Or, do you create a profile file in your computer containing your intricate and exhaustive (LMAO!) calculations and determinations about each alleged troll and somehow send a copy of it to everyone on Earth to warn them of impending doom? Or, do you only dispense it to other regulars here who are able to contact you personally and who request a copy because they let you do their thinking for them?

Or, do you just think that your stupid ‘profiles’ actually matter, when in reality they actually don’t? Do you really believe that what happens on this website, or your asinine profiles, or what you do with them, matters one iota to the vast majority of the people on Earth? Get over yourself Mike.

Hey, if you have my profile handy, why don’t you post it here? I could use a good laugh.

Your “profile” is a person who needs attention and does not even try to get it by behaving in any consistent or coherent fashion. You are a manipulative jerk who takes ANY response from others and uses it as an excuse to attack. You bash us for not being tolerant enough of Creationists, while stating Creationist fallacies yourself. Then you turn around and deny being religious and question why certain others who are Creationist take their religion so seriously. Such strange behavior is pathological in the extreme.

Gee, this website seems VERY important to you, considering how much time you spend here.

You are either crazy or a fraud, Kris.

The fun thing about the BW is that the trolls either have to cave in and respond on the BW – which they don’t want to do – or pass up responding – which they REALLY don’t want to do.

Kris said:

Whatever you do, don’t even consider that when people come here and sincerely want to ask, discuss, debate, learn, and/or contribute in some way, that when they’re mercilessly insulted and attacked and erroneously lumped into your hated group of ID/creationists, they just might not like it and may fight back, and especially when they offer reasonable explanations of their words and the explanations (and the person) are ignored, misinterpreted, misrepresented, slammed, bashed, and ridiculed by you and the rest of the mindless haters here. Yeah, don’t even consider that for a second. You and the other haters and bashers here are way too perfect to have to consider such things. It’s never your fault.

Your track record is too well known here for us to consider that you are sincere about anything. You are even WORSE than the average Creationist troll because you keep going back and forth between acting non-religious and acting like a Creationist. You cannot be both, so you must be bullshitting us. Nobody here can take that seriously.

Expressed violent thoughts a number of times?? Yeah Mike, I would thoroughly enjoy kicking your ass and the asses of anyone else who has called me a liar, but I haven’t “expressed violent thoughts a number of times” in the way you’re implying. You’re the one who needs a psychiatrist, along with some others here. If you’re considered sane, I’d rather be considered crazy. And comparing me or anyone else you simply don’t agree with to a serial killer just helps show how paranoid and delusional you are.

If you don’t like being called a liar, stop being one. At least I have ALWAYS told the truth about YOU.

DH, a very minor issue here: the first part you cited above was addressed to me, and personally I find it amusing to watch such comments fall into a hole of resounding silence.

However, as far as the rest goes, carry on.

mrg said:

DH, a very minor issue here: the first part you cited above was addressed to me, and personally I find it amusing to watch such comments fall into a hole of resounding silence.

However, as far as the rest goes, carry on.

Oh, did you want to answer him here first? Be my guest. But I figured I’d just make a note of ANY inappropriate thing Kris says elsewhere and post it here, answer it here, and wait for Kris to take the hint and stop attacking us everywhere else and just slam people here.

Dale Husband said: Oh, did you want to answer him here first? Be my guest.

Why would I want to do that? But if my own rejoinder is indifference, I can at least politely ask that the effect not be spoiled.

Kris threatens: “I would thoroughly enjoy kicking your ass and the asses of anyone else who has called me a liar,…”

Lotsa bluster; everybody’s collective asses are exposed right here.

Mike Elzinga said: … everybody’s collective asses are exposed right here.

AARGH! I am so outa here!

Kris said:

Mike Elzinga said:

mrg said:

Serial killers are maybe a bit much of a comparison.

The point was the sociopathic needs of such an individual. This troll has expressed violent thoughts a number of times. But a psychiatrist would have a better handle on this that I.

I think people like attention; it’s just a question of what kind of attention. When I was the factory contact guy in my corporate life, a colleague in marketing told me that it was true I put up with a lot of abuse – I did – but added: “People thank you sometimes.”

And they did. I get thanks on occasion for my current efforts as well – not often, and maybe thanks aren’t the be-all and end-all of the effort … but on the other side of the coin, if nobody ever thanks me, what reason would I have to honestly believe what I was doing actually did anyone good?

Now take the negative mentalities that show up here … does anyone ever thank them for what they’re doing? It’s obvious it never happens, and just as obvious that they haven’t any expectation that it will.

They still want attention, and lacking any concept that they will ever be praised, they have no alternative but to be disruptive. If one cannot build, then they can only take satisfaction in destruction.

Yeah; you are pointing out common desires that nearly everyone has. But sociopaths also know this and manipulate these.

But I suspect most of us can simply walk away from these kinds of manipulations when we have other things to do that are satisfying; and I suspect most of the moderators here on PT do in fact have other things vying for their attention.

Hell, I’m retired and I can’t get through everything I want to get through in a week. The only reason I even show up here is that the PT topics are often very interesting, and I have a high speed connection that allows me to look in from time to time when I happen to be working on my computer. So most of the time I’m multitasking up a storm when I’m here.

Expressed violent thoughts a number of times?? Yeah Mike, I would thoroughly enjoy kicking your ass and the asses of anyone else who has called me a liar, but I haven’t “expressed violent thoughts a number of times” in the way you’re implying. You’re the one who needs a psychiatrist, along with some others here. If you’re considered sane, I’d rather be considered crazy. And comparing me or anyone else you simply don’t agree with to a serial killer just helps show how paranoid and delusional you are.

Whew! Glad I never called Kris a liar. I only called him a coward and a bully.

Mike Elzinga said: Lotsa bluster; everybody’s collective asses are exposed right here.

So it’s like “one of these days Alice, POW! To the mooning”?

Another collection of Kris’ delusional rants.

Kris said:

And of course your insulting comments, and the insulting comments by the other hypocrites here, don’t violate any of those rules you posted, eh?

Apparently, all that matters here is that any insults have to be aimed at creationists or anyone who doesn’t blindly and viciously attack them right along with you guys/gals.

Giving you back your own shit isn’t allowed. Questioning you isn’t allowed. Having a mind of my own isn’t allowed. Calling you on your bullshit isn’t allowed. Anything less than total devotion and obedience to you and your creationist hating ‘cause’ isn’t allowed. Hypocrisy, by you and your cohorts, is allowed, and encouraged.

Kris said:

And of course you and others going on and on about “trolls”, and repeatedly posting “DNFTT”, isn’t “SPAM”. Yeah, whatever.

Why do you think that a “dissenter” is automatically a “troll”? You’ve said you’re a Christian. Would your Christian God approve of your insulting, hypocritical, hateful behavior?

Kris said:

Maybe, just maybe the moderators are getting wise to the hypocrisy and other bullshit you and others are guilty of.

Now STFU spamming troll.

How do you like your own shit thrown back at you?

Panda’s Thumb is a blog made for defending evolution and promoting proper science education, and since Kris was the one who invaded the blog to spew both Creationist arguments that we were expected to “tolerate” (like we are supposed to tolerate falsehoods?) and then claim to be non-religious at other times, why shouldn’t we regard him as unwelcome, inconsistent and disruptive? Why shouldn’t we treat him like he is the enemy, when that’s all he has ever acted like since he arrived here?

An example of hypocrisy would be us invading and attacking ID promoters on Uncommon Descent. I’ve never done that, and never will. Maybe Kris can go over there and drive the ID people crazy for a while, to prove to us once and for all that he is an equal-opportunity critic, and not a bigoted Creationist concern troll.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/

Kris the creationist wrote:

“If, however, “descent with modification” is defined as showing that speciation (evolution) occurs and/or occurred, then that’s a different ballgame, and requires greater evidence. While a lot of evidence points to a persuasive probability that descent with modification, including divergence/speciation, occurred throughout(?) the history of life, there’s a lot more work to do to before it can reasonably be said that it has been established close to 100%, and I’m not sure it can be reasonably said that it can be established ‘empirically’. Many inferences have been and have to be made, and inferences are a matter of opinion.”

This is of course incorrect. I already posted a link to a web page entitled:

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution

If Kris wants to discuss the point, he can do so here. Maybe someone will want to discuss it with him. Unless of course he is just plain chicken shit.

DS said: Kris the creationist wrote:

You might just leave a short bland note on the original thread to invite him to come to the BW for discussion. He’ll ignore it, of course, but that works too.

Yawn.

(Bored.)

All the spamming at The Immune System Cross-examination Still Burns, and other forums, is very unChristlike, don’t you think?

Makes you wonder if these anti-science creation-supporters are Christians? (Never known a real creationist who wasn’t.)

It’s funny how trolls stubbornly resist being prodded to direct their comments to the BW. They know that once they do, they don’t have any real nuisance value any more: “What’s the point of trolling, then?”

Kris huffs and puffs and squeaks “What are you afraid of?” hiding behind his mommy’s apron. Afraid to mix it up on the big kid’s playground, he’ll sit in the sandbox and cry.

Poor widdle Kwis! Mean old scientists call you out on your stupid shit? Maybe if we ignore the little wanker he’ll go back into the closet and play with himself.

Geeze, I’m beginning to miss FL! I tell you, the neighborhood is going to hell.

I knew the asshole was chicken shit. All he haas to do is come here and provide a better explanation for the 29 different independent data sets that are all consistent with common descent. Until he does, I guess he will just be someone who believes in evolution but not in common descent. Yea right.

Everyone should remember, he had his chance to discuss science, he chose to quote mine and insult instead. He can cry all he wants to now, but everyone is wise to his crap.

FL said:

But according to at least one iteration of IBIG, we atheists “hate God”. Which assumes that we know he exists: how can you hate something that you know doesn’t even exist?

And then when Christians ask Just Bob how he knows God doesn’t exist, Just Bob goes blank. Can’t explain it, even now. Hmm. Yet he says he knows that God doesn’t exist. Period.

So one might as well conclude that IBIG’s characterization is factual.

Look, stupid, we know gods do not exist in exactly the same way we know that vampires and zombies and werewolves do not exist. Period.

So we might as well conclude that you’re crazy because you believe in things which do not exist.

FL said:

Meanwhile, looks like Just Bob can’t explain how he knows that God doesn’t exist. But then again, NONE of you can.

Liar.

I have explained several times how I conclude that gods do not exist.

By the way, you guys don’t like the ENV article about that horse mutation and intelligent design?

What I don’t like are your lies, Flawd. You said the article

in fact establishes the existence of Intelligent Design.

But it does not, does it, liar?

FL said:

(By the way, you guys don’t like the ENV article about that horse mutation and intelligent design?

Only a deranged, self-absorbed arrogant twit with delusions of grandeur and an unearned sense of cosmic importance would claim that the mutation arose SPECIFICALLY for human benefit.

What happened IN REALITY is the mutation arose, humans found it useful and bred the horses for that trait.

Given that we know humans exist, have knowable motives, and have a good idea of their methodology, there is no way a sane or rational person would conclude from the ACTUAL journal article that the DMRT3 mutation was intelligently designed.

Which explains why you lap up the howling f*ckwittery at ENV - it is the only way it even comes close to supporting your IDiocy.

Initiating standard creationut rantings in 3… 2.. 1..

Okay, then don’t believe it. Your current religion prohibits you from believing in the intelligent design of humans, so naturally you’re going to say it doesn’t exist for horses either.

Acceptance of reality is not a religion, no matter how many times you repeat that LIE.

The article in no way, shape, or form supports (or even SUGGESTS) intelligent design; again, twit : only an arrogant, self-important manure golem with delusions of cosmic importance could ‘think’ that a mutation arising in horses was put there specifically for human use.

The ENV ‘article’ was on par with Ray Comfort’s “the banana fits perfectly in the human hand, therefore, IT WUZ CREATED BY THE CHRISTIAN GOD !!11!1!” argument.

As for your earlier gibbertwittery :

‘Irreducibly complexity’ can evolve, given the FACTS that 1) parts of a ‘system’ can be added, subtracted, and modified; 2) the function of a ‘system’ can change, meaning there is no sane or rational reason to claim that everything MUST fall together all at once on the first try exactly the way we see it today.

The only reason to follow that delusion is to invoke one of the core IDiot arguments : the ‘Argument’ from Big Numbers (ie, ‘the odds of this falling together all at once PURELY by chance in this particular configuration is 1 in 10^gadzookillions to one against; therefore, we MUST conclude the direct intervention of MaGiCaL SkY PiXiEs !!1!!1!1!!1!!!’)

That is pretty much the most used of the ‘evidences’ for ‘intelligent design’ - the rest are Misinformation Theory Arguments, Bellowing Arrogance, ‘Arguments’ from personal incredulity, and willful ignorance.

As demonstrated here :

Any little pointers in the direction of ID for horses, you are naturally inclined to reject. C’est la vie.)

FL :)

There was no evidence for ID in horses, given the FACTS that we know mutations arise at random, and that humans can select for traits they find useful.

Again, twit : only someone deranged enough to ‘think’ that they are the most important thing in the universe would claim that ‘OUR Magical Sky Pixie induced that mutation in horses for human benefit !!1!!!!’

Selection (artificial or otherwise) works on phenotype, not genotype. So the fact that no one knew the precise mutation in DMRT3 until it was sequenced is irrelevant to your and ENV’s sanctimonious blitherings.

Heck, it was only a few years ago that researchers tracked down and figured out which mutation was responsible for wrinkled seeds in Mendel’s peas.

Darwin didn’t know about genes or DNA, yet his theory has been working for 150+ years, with no sign of it being supplanted by the evidence-free mumblings of IDiots, creationuts or theoloons any time soon.

Poor old Flawd.

He cannot answer even the most basic criticisms of his assertions. When he’s criticized, he ducks and dodges and runs off and hides.

Yet he’s convinced of the reality of gods and zombies and ghosts and spirits. He lives in a demon-haunted world, a world infested by demons that no one else can see.

He can’t muster the least defense of his preposterous claims. All he can do is to repeat them, like an empty-headed parrot.

And this guy thinks he can write a book worth reading.

Only a deranged, self-absorbed arrogant twit with delusions of grandeur and an unearned sense of cosmic importance would claim that the mutation arose SPECIFICALLY for human benefit.

Or a guy who simply reads and believes the Bible account of teleology-based creation, Dr. Poland.

FL said:

Only a deranged, self-absorbed arrogant twit with delusions of grandeur and an unearned sense of cosmic importance would claim that the mutation arose SPECIFICALLY for human benefit.

Or a guy who simply reads and believes the Bible account of teleology-based creation, Dr. Poland.

Hey, fool, are you going to defend your lies?

No, of course you are not. You can’t. You’re a half-wit, a poor delusional sicko.

You’re a loon.

FL said:

Keelyn sends a message, which is always welcome. She says:

Since Floyd has not (and cannot) produce so much as one single femto-speck of empirical evidence that supports the existence of his cockamamie Cuckoo of the Cosmos (or his Heaven or his Hell),

Oh, that’s an easy one. If you have evidence for God’s existence, it then becomes rationally impossible to rule out the existence of Heaven of Hell. (And that’s on top of the fact that many humans have reported actually seeing either one place or the other, over the years. Think about that!)

That is an easy one, huh? Well, key word in that paragraph, Floyd, is “IF” – I even underlined it for you. But, you do not – you have no evidence at all of any kind. And people have reported actually seeing (and hearing) all kinds of things for thousands of years. That does not mean what they “see” and “hear” is real. People have been hallucinating for thousands of years, also. So what?

So let’s briefly focus on evidence for God’s existence.

Is there a mirror in your bathroom? Do you ever use it? Ever think about your irreducibly complex eyes and your still-unfathomed visual/brain processing system? Your intricate, interconnected and interesting (and intelligent) skin system?

Been there, Floyd. You are still wrong. Human eyes are not irreducibly complex, we understand a great deal about the visual/brain processing system (it is far from unfathomable), and we understand the evolution of skin fairly well. Come up with something new, please.

Were you given access to a microscope in your science classes? Ever look closely at those protozoa things and their inner machinery? Ever see a Vorticella duck down when another protozoa is accidentally swimming at them? Ever wonder what kind of intelligence could produce all that machinery and awareness inside of only one cell?

Been there, too, Floyd. And several people have already demolished that nonsense – so, I will not bother.

Did they discuss all those various physical constants in your physics classes? Ever wonder how they ALL seem to arrive at just the right numbers for HUMANS to survive and thrive?

Did they allow you students access to the university observatory? Nice big telescope and such? Ever wonder how Earth just happened to get correctly placed in the correct area of the Milky Way to check out the rest of the universe with?

And we have been in this room already, too. Boring, Floyd. Evidence, please. Evidence!

And you like horses, is that right? Suppose I mentioned to you that there is something about horses, just one little science factoid about horses, that in fact establishes the existence of Intelligent Design.

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/0[…]n082811.html

Read it and it is mostly horsesh*t. Not the research, necessarily (I may read that paper), but the conclusions that you and the IDiots at the Disco Tute present. I could give a line by line dissemination if you require it.

So rationally consider thiTHIS objective reality, mi amiga:

Romans 1:20 is very true, and can be empirically confirmed (via inference to the best explanation), merely by closely examining the biosphere and cosmos anywhere in the vicinity of Keelyn’s house, including Keelyn herself.

You won’t be able to disprove THAT one! Heh!!

I am closely examining it and it does not confirm the existence of your imaginary Cuckoo of the Cosmos in the least. Again, present some real testable empirical evidence, please, that can be repeated and verified by anyone. Until you do, than the rational, logical, and reasonable conclusion is that such things do not exist.

Just a modification of a statement I made - Human eyes may be irreducibly complex (now), but that does not mean that they did not evolve.

Henry J said:

Just Bob said:

And FIRMAMENT. Everyone always forgets firmament.

Isn’t it a solid?

Yep, firmament is the lightest known solid, as it floats above the Earth. Yet it’s incredibly strong, being able to support all the preFlood waters beyond its doors.

I wonder if any ‘scientific’ creationists are doing any firmament research.

phhht said:

FL said:

But according to at least one iteration of IBIG, we atheists “hate God”. Which assumes that we know he exists: how can you hate something that you know doesn’t even exist?

And then when Christians ask Just Bob how he knows God doesn’t exist, Just Bob goes blank. Can’t explain it, even now. Hmm. Yet he says he knows that God doesn’t exist. Period.

So one might as well conclude that IBIG’s characterization is factual.

Look, stupid, we know gods do not exist in exactly the same way we know that vampires and zombies and werewolves do not exist. Period.

So we might as well conclude that you’re crazy because you believe in things which do not exist.

I guess he was talking about me. I don’t read his BS, so I missed it. And I guess I don’t care. So… what phhht said.

Keelyn said:

Just a modification of a statement I made - Human eyes may be irreducibly complex (now), but that does not mean that they did not evolve.

Human eyes are not irreducibly complex.

I had a close relative who suffered an eye injury as a young woman. As a result, she developed a severe cataract that totally occluded the vision in her left eye.*

This was the 70’s, and eye surgery was pretty primitive. Cataract surgery back then involved making a second incision into the shell of the eye and using a vacuum tool to pull out the lens, leaving the lens capsule empty and interfering with the ability of the iris to contract. Also, a hospital stay with your head between sandbags.**

The ‘access hole’ healed, but it left a translucent spot that leaked light into the eye.

The ideas was that you would wear a large, powerful, ‘scleral’ contact lens that would replace the lost lens ans shield the thin spot.

My aunt was never able to tolerate the lens, so her eye was totally unable to focus.

She had, essentially, a pinhole camera with a too-large pinhole to make a good image, and suffering light leaks from the second incision.

A truly crappy eye if there ever was one.

Nonetheless she was adamant that her eye still gave her useful information. Though she could barely see shapes, it still gave her a sense of light and dark, of proximity and especially movement on her left side. She claimed the ability to sense movement and objects on her left side made the the difference between being able to drive and not.

* By the way, virtually everyone develops some degree of cataract if they live long enough, because the lens yellows due to ultraviolet light. This would have been especially noticeable in Biblical times, when 1) people worked outside every day, 2) they lived in the bright, sunny Mediterranean, and 3) they had no medical technology to help people who had vision issues.

Considering that eyesight was probably more central to survival back then than it is now, having an eye made of materials that failed because of exposure to light seems like a mighty big design flaw in an intelligently designed eye. Especially if you reconcile that with the Biblical claim claims that people regularly lived to be 800 years old, giving them an eye that would leave them blind at 50 seems like a bad plan.

** For contrast, I compare this experience to that of my father, who had cataract surgery two years ago. It was an outpatient procedure, and they inserted a new lens that also corrected his nearsightedness and astigmatism. He was so thrilled that he immediately tried scheduling the other eye, only to be dissapointed because the cataract wasn’t “ripe” enough yet.

phhht said:

FL said:

Meanwhile, looks like Just Bob can’t explain how he knows that God doesn’t exist. But then again, NONE of you can.

Liar.

I have explained several times how I conclude that gods do not exist.

By the way, you guys don’t like the ENV article about that horse mutation and intelligent design?

What I don’t like are your lies, Flawd. You said the article

in fact establishes the existence of Intelligent Design.

But it does not do that, does it?

Liar.

Well, liar? Well, fool?

FL blathered:

Malcolm says,

If Keelyn is an atheist, then the existance of God is not obvious to at least one person. If Romans 1:20 were true, God would be obvious to everybody, and atheists would not exist.

Your statement is necessarily false, because an alternative rational explanation can be supplied for the existence of atheists, including Keelyn and yourself.

(Hint: Humans, including atheists, possess free-will agency.).

Then why don’t you supply “an alternative rational explanation”?

(Hint: You’ll need to do better than, “free-will agency”)

Not even close, Floyd. Hmph.

Flawd, your claims that gods exist are

necessarily false, because an alternative rational explanation can be supplied

Hoist on your own farts, fool.

FL said:

But according to at least one iteration of IBIG, we atheists “hate God”. Which assumes that we know he exists: how can you hate something that you know doesn’t even exist?

And then when Christians ask Just Bob how he knows God doesn’t exist, Just Bob goes blank. Can’t explain it, even now. Hmm. Yet he says he knows that God doesn’t exist. Period.

Any blankness on Just Bob’s part is probably due to being stunned by the stupidity of the question.

I can’t speak for Just Bob, but I don’t believe that gods exist because, despite what Romans 1:20 says, there is no evidence to suggest that they exist.

So one might as well conclude that IBIG’s characterization is factual.

Only if you are an idiot who doesn’t understand what the word atheist even means.

Floyd’s burbling about eyes being evidence for design are also quite amusing.

As a biochemist, I would say that eyes make great evidence for a lack of design in nature.

Human eyes are horribly inefficient, and obviously patched together.

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