A new article in Time Magazine just came across my bloglines account.
“Stealth Attack On Evolution” was on the whole a decent article. I am sure the Discovery Institute will carp anyway, even though they get quoted and even get their list of 300+ scientists cited (translation: 300+ scientists signing on to an extremely vague statement not even supporting ID, and with only 4 Steves), because they will be annoyed that the the article points out the fact that this represents a miniscule proportion of the scientific community.
One passage in the Time article was particularly groanworthy:
They [evolutionary biologists] developed the theory of punctuated equilibriums, for example, to address the fact that species remain unchanged for long periods, then suddenly start evolving.
“Equilibriums”? Eh? And most everything else about the sentence is wrong, also. How hard would it be for a journalist to say,
By the 1940’s, biologists had synthesized Darwin’s natural selection and Mendel’s genetics into the discipline of population genetics, the mathematical theory describing how genes spread through populations under the influence of natural selection. A finding from population genetics was that small populations can evolve more rapidly than large populations, and this finding, along with extensive field observations, were combined to produce the theory of allopatric (geographically localized) speciation. In 1972, Gould and Eldredge applied these results about speciation to the fossil record, producing the model of “punctuated equilibria.” They argued that if speciation was typically allopatric, the fossil record would most commonly record only widespread species, and that these would typically evolve slowly. New species (closely related to the old species) would tend to evolve in small, isolated populations, and then spread. They would therefore appear “suddenly”, geologically speaking. Punctuated equilibria therefore predicts that species-species transitions involving whole populations would tend to be relatively rare in the fossil record. It specifically did not say that “transitional fossils” in general are absent. Gould, annoyed at creationist misrepresentations of his position, specifically said in rebuttal, “Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups.” *
Sigh. Well, I can dream, can’t I?
* I originally mistakenly said 1973 for the date of the Punk Eek paper, the correct date is 1972. Thanks to Wes Elsberry for this and various other corrections and clarifications (see comments, below).
I agree. This sentence was definitely “groanworthy.” Who knows where the authors got that description. I know I certainly didn’t give it to them.
They also bungled the history of the Kansas science standards a bit, but that is pretty insignificant. I really should write up a short summary of the situation since 1999 so that reporters have a better chance of getting it right.
I was bothered by this, though:
Even “on its face”, this is not a reasonable request. Science standards summarize the widely-accepted essential core science upon which schools should build their curriculum. No one claims that ID is “widely accepted”, so just because “some legitimate scientists think I.D. is more persuasive” doesn’t mean that ID should be considered in the standands.
Ken Miller has a new metaphor for the situation. He used to use the idea that the IDists were trying to do an “end-run” around established policies both for getting ideas established as science and for getting ideas into standards. However, in a radio show in Kansas City a few weeks ago, he used a better metaphor: the IDists haven’t been successful in the marketplace of ideas, so they are now looking for a government handout by going straight to school boards.
As long as we are going for pedantry, the original PE article is 1972, not 1973. And PE isn’t based on direct deductions from population genetics, but rather upon observations in field biology and the resulting theory of allopatric speciation. Ernst Mayr will kick you the next time you meet, I’m sure.
http://www.antievolution.org/people[…]s/pe104.html
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~theobal/PE.html
That’s what I get for trying to summarize Punk Eek before dinner. I’ll correct the 1973 bit…
Regarding the “direct deductions from population genetics” bit, I was indeed oversimplifying. Punk Eek is based on the theory of allopatric speciation, which in turn was based in part on population genetics considerations, in addition to field studies, etc. Quoth your FAQ:
What I was trying to say was that Punk Eek is basically derived from “microevolutionary” studies, straight from the middle of Neodarwinism. Which is basically the opposite of what everyone thinks.
And, for the record, I would consider it a great honor to be kicked by Dr. Mayr…
That is an insult to legitimate scientists. “Legitimate” scientists can make compelling arguments as to why their “theory” is scientific and useful to scientists. “Legitimate” scientists make their case to scientists by publishing the results of research using their theory which shows that their theory is valuable. “Legitimate” scientists don’t write high school textbooks first and do the research later.
There are no “legitimate scientists” who think that the idea that mysterious alien beings designed and created all the earth’s life forms is more “persuasive” than the theory that life on earth is related by common descent. The people who find “ID theory” persuasive enough to push it like coca-cola on Americans who don’t know better are the same people who believe that cartoon sponges make kids gay, and who believe that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS.
And when will these journalists realize that many legitimate scientists think it highly unlikely that ultra-powerful mysterious beings exist and note that there is no scientific evidence supporing the existence of such beings? And surely there are also “some legitimate scientists” who believe that they can prove that no such beings exist, using arguments that are just as self-serving as those used by the “ID theory” peddlers. What possible scientific reason could justify the ID peddlers exclusion of these viewpoints from biology classrooms if they are sincere about what they claim to be seeking (“critical thinking”)?
“Teach the controversy” is the height of hypocracy. The ID peddlers want to create controversy. The last they want is for the American people to wake up and realize that the controversy is a bunch of baloney cooked up by a group of anti-science anti-education frauds.
Being consistent with population genetics isn’t quite the same thing as being directly deduced from population genetics. Ernst Mayr has had a long history of contempt for “beanbag genetics” of the sort that permit easy deductions, which I why I thought it rather ironic to attribute PE to the wellspring of the folks Mayr often applied a verbal lash to, when it was Mayr’s insight that lay behind the development of PE.
Be it kicks or praise, getting Mayr’s attention for a moment would be a personal experience to cherish.
Don’t bag Coca-Cola!
I’ll be a bit more optimistic then GWW. I don’t say there is no “legitimate” that study ID. Just that, like ID, we have no evidence of said scientists.
I would love to actually here about actual research into ID just because it would be an interesting mixup to the norm which if all the science is done properly is always good for science. But sinse ID is currently lacking this issue just hurts science by confusing those that are easily swayed.
The short and simple way of putting it is, there are legitimate scientists who think ID is more persuasive, but they almost exclusively do so for non-scientific reasons (i.e. religion). And there are no scientists who actually study ID as an object of scientific research, because as far as anyone can tell, there’s nothing to study.
I just lucked on to an article by Provine addressing exactly the question we are discussing. According to Provine, in 1942 Ernst Mayr was a “beanbagger” on his own account (italics=internal quote of Mayr):
Over the next 10 years Mayr became a critic of “beanbag genetics”, apparently because he came to see the co-adaptedness of alleles as very important. But it appears that the effect of small population sizes remained important:
I confess I was not too clear on the difference between Mayr (1942) and Mayr (1954) before I read this, but it still seems to me that the implications of population genetics for evolution in small populations were a crucial bit of the allopatric speciation model.
Apart from this, there is an additional question of whether or not Mayr was right about this being the main mode of speciation – and therefore whether or not Gould was right about Punk Eek. Allopatric speciation clearly occurs, but sympatric speciation seems to be increasing in popularity again, and my vague understanding is that at least for cenozoic mammals the conclusion of paleontologists like Gingerich is that gradual transitions between species are actually fairly common in the fossil record.
It’s my understanding that allopatric speciation is still considered to be the norm, but sympatric speciation is being recognized as more possible (but still quite rare). Bush’s example of host shifts in Rhagoletis is one of the most accepted forms of sympatric speciation, but new examples continuously appear in the literature. The current trend in sympatric speciation is to look at chromosomal rearrangements (e.g., Navarro, Noor, Feder), but even in these cases it is unclear if the trends are due to sympatric speciation or reinforcement.
Interestingly, Coyne and Orr’s new Speciation book barely even acknowledges Punctuated Equilibrium. They address it briefly in a couple of paragraphs when they write about the geological record, but they don’t give it the treatment it deserves based on it’s historical importance. This is probably due to the fact that both of the authors are geneticists not geologists, and they are staunch defenders of the role selection plays in speciation and PunkEek may be too much of a neutralist theory for them.
The Time article in easy to read and annotated format
Gee, “well-funded” by whom? They apparently don’t think to ask…
until the end of the article. Ooops!
I’m not sure if that’s completely accurate. I’m currently reading Kenneth Miller’s “Finding Darwin’s God.” In it, he talks extensively about “punctuated equilibrium” (punk eek). He says punk eek is often just a special case of evolution where time is compressed via the geological column; rather than an example of something being unchanged for “long periods of time” and then suddenly changing dramatically.
None of those theories are being assaulted by religious zealots.
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Merrell 1994 is _The Adaptive Seascape_ p 14
Gould 1982b is The meaning of punctuated equlibrium and its role in validating a hierarchical approach to macroevolution. In _Perspectives on Evolution_, R. Milkman, Ed. Sinaur, Sunderland, Mass.]
Discovery has received funding from Howard F. Ahmanson Jr., an ultraconservative savings-and-loan heir. … Salon did a nice profile of Ahmanson last year: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2[…]06/ahmanson/
This is my first post here at PT. You guys do a terrific job.
Re: Ernst Mayr–forgive my ignorance, but I could swear that I read that he had passed away.
If that’s not the case, then I’d be honored to be kicked by him as well! His book “What Evolution Is” remains one of the best references for a biological layperson like myself.
Unless he just kicked, Mayr is still around. He turned 100 last July and wrote a very interesting letter in Science commemorating it:
Happy birthday: 80 years of watching the evolutionary scenery.
You may be thinking of John Maynard Smith, another of the greats, who died not long ago.
Coyne has long been a harsh critic of PE, and feels it is nearly worthless as a scientific hypothesis, e.g.:
Jerry A. Coyne and Brian Charlesworth “On puctuated equlibria”, Science, Vol 276, Issue 5311, 337-341 , 18 April 1997
and in 2002 H. Allen Orr summed up the mainstream view of PE in the New Yorker thus:
The Descent of Gould
It seems to me that you could replace “Eldredge and Gould” with “Kimura” and “punctuated equilibrium” with “neutral theory” and it would still make sense. I guess both theories are guilty of hedging bets in such a way that they can remain valid, despite new evidence that would seemingly disprove them, by tinkering and making slight adaptations. In my opinion, a theory that cannot be disproven because of it’s ability to “dodge punches” may be insightful, but it has obvious limitations. It looks like I’m siding with Coyne on this one.
Oh, good grief.
Coyne is a moth guy, isn’t he? It’s important that we understand his statements are not against evolution, but against the Eldredge/Gould hypothesis that evolution often proceeds in spurts.
And since Coyne is a moth guy, shouldn’t we give careful consideration to what sort of evidence we have for fossil moths when we apply his criticisms to the fossil record PE actually illuminates?
And, isn’t PE exactly the statement “that morphological (and other) evolution sometimes occurs episodically?” This sounds like the creationist whine that, since mutation is now so well understood that only a fool would deny it, they must somehow claim that mutation is a part of non-Darwinian biology, and perhaps opposed to it.
My intent for giving the Coyne and Orr quotes was to illuminate the reason for RPM’s observation that Coyne and Orr essentially ignore PE in their book Speciation.
Sure, he’s not arguing against evolution (where did that come from?), but neither is he arguing against the hypothesis that evolution often proceeds in spurts (an observation/hypothesis that of course originated with neither Eldredge nor Gould).
If it were, nobody would ever have found it controversial or found it interesting. Coyne and Charlesworth state in Science (1996) 274:1748 that “shorn of [a non-Darwinian] mechanism, the theory reduces to the noncontroversial statement that morphological evolution sometimes occurs episodically.” Which was a characterization to which Eldredge and Gould vociferously objected.
Okay, I wasn’t clear that I wasn’t complaining about Mr. Theobald’s post. I did want to make it clear to trolling quote miners that Coyne’s work is not to be used against evolution the way Jonathan Wells tries to use Coyne’s work.
I may be overly sensitive, but it comes from the representations made to the Texas State Board of Education that Coyne is a dissenter from evolution, when he’s clearly not.
I think we see eye to eye – I hope the quote miners will be honest and leave the quotes in their proper context.
Does anyone have that list of 350 scientists? And does anyone have a link to the statement they signed?
My understanding is that some of the people who signed the statement do not have a doctorate in a hard science. Also do most of the people who signed the statement have a doctorate in biology?
Also, I remember reading the statement. At the time, I was struck at how vague it was. It seemed like the kind of thing that one could reasonably sign. In fact, construed in some ways that statement seems accurate. Didn’t it say that “natural selection” is not the only cause of the existence of organisms? Well, I’m not sure what they mean by “Natural Selection.” But what about genetic drift?
On punctuated equilibrium, the authors of the Time article didn’t do a good job with that. These news magazines should have scientists write these articles.
It is helpful to break Gould’s hypothesis into two parts. First, it is *clear* that some organisms are similar anatomically to their ancestors that lived millions of years before them. My understanding is that cockroaches are an example. The second hypothesis is more questionable. Gould suggested that some organisms are fairly different anatomically to their ancestors that lived thousands — or hundreds of thousands — of years earlier. Are there any clear examples? Does Gould offer any? I know that some specimens that are about 545 million years old are fairly different than any specimens that are 600 million years old. But they are not hugely different. In fact, every specimen that is about 545 million years old is fairly similar to at least one specimen that is older than it. Also, 55 million years is a long time! One more time: 55 million years is a long time!
Here is a link to Ediacaran specimens, which are about 600 million years old: http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vendia[…]ritters.html
Also, here is an article by Glenn Morton on some of the known fossil specimens that are older than 545 million years old: http://home.entouch.net/dmd/cambevol.htm
It looks to me that each specimen that is about 545 million years old is fairly similar to at least on specimen that is older than it.
Finally, the authors of the Time article say there are “gaps” in evolution. The authors should say what they mean by that, and give some examples.
I sometimes hear people say that some known fossil specimens that are 545 million years old are different than all known fossil specimens older than they are. But, as I said, they aren’t that different. From what I’ve seen each specimens that is about 545 million years old is at least fairly similar to at least one specimen older than it.
Now some of the specimens that are about 600 million years old are fairly different than the oldest known specimens. But the specimens that are about 600 million years are like cnidarians or sea anemones. And the oldest known specimens are 3.5 billion years old. They are the remains of bacteria. Three billion years is a long time!
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vi[…]d.php?id=269 has both.
Yes, many of the scientists appear to be non-scientists, and many of the scientists may well be unqualified to judge. And, as has been pointed out many times, the statement they signed could be signed in good faith by many qualified scientists who accept the ToE; many such are indeed skeptical that random mutation and natural selection are the sole items that account for the complexity of life; e.g.neutral drift and other processes appear to be significant.
I found this claim to be amusing, given the original topic of this post.
Isn’t Panda’s Thumb part of the “blogosphere?” Surely Crowther knows about PT. Or does he think that the media only misrepresents the ID position? Apparently, the phrase “holding the media accountable” really means “spin, spin, spin, spin…”
Jeremy that’s a hoot. I also liked this
So says the transparency-loving Discovery Institute “staff” who authored the article.
As earlier predicted by Nick Matzke, the DI is complaining about the TIME article over on their “blahg.”
John West claims that the authors of the story “parrot the NCSE.” He goes so far as to suggest that Eugenie Scott should have been listed as one of the authors. However, I recognized a lot of my comments to reporter Noah Isackson represented in the article, and I’m not associated with the NCSE. I’m sure that my colleague Ken Bingman can do the same. Why doesn’t West complain that the TIME article “parrots Jeremy Mohn and Ken Bingman?” Maybe because it’s easier to blame the “scientific establishment” than to accept that even us lowly science teachers can see through the pseudoscientific facade of ID.
First, hopefully this wasn’t directed at me for criticizing evolution because that was not my point at all.
Secondly, Jerry Coyne is a Drosophila geneticist, not “a moth guy.” I feel, as a Drosophila geneticists, that I must make this point, in order to prevent further confusion between the Drosophila research community and the moth research community.
Finally, it’s my impression that E&G’s PuncEek describes morphological evolution and speciation, and not evolution in general. Most geneticists would argue that the majority of molecular evolution occurs continuously and gradually. How speciation and morphological evolution occur, however, is debatable and within the realm of PuncEek.
Jon Fleming, thanks a lot.
One can reasonably conclude that “random mutation and natural selection do not account for the complexity of life.” For one, “random mutation” and “natural selection,” as I think the authors of the statement are using the terms, did not cause the existence of the first self-replicating molecules on earth.
I would like to thank Dr. Theobald for his informative web page entitled, All you need to know about Punctuated Equilibrium (almost): Common misconceptions concerning the hypothesis of Punctuated Equilibrium.
However, is anyone else bothered by the following statements quoted from Dr. Theobald’s web page?
From Douglas Theobald (Copyright © 2001-2003);
“One wonders if Eldredge and Gould had read anything more than the title of Chapter 10 of The Origin of Species.”
“.…were stated by Charles Darwin over 100 years before Eldredge and Gould proposed their “novel” hypothesis.”
Gould was an authority on the life and writings of Darwin and I find it ridiculous that Dr. Theobald would suggest Gould and Eldredge didn’t read Darwin’s Origin thoroughly.
Gould’s and Eldredge’s PE theory is “novel,” and was a brilliant new perspective on the origin of species despite Theobald’s opinion to the contrary.
The general tenor of Theobald’s piece is undeservedly acrimonious to Gould’s and Eldredge’s formulation of the PE theory.
My apologies in advance to Dr. Theobald if I am misinterpreting his meaning.
Here’s the link to Dr. Theobald’s web page All you need to know about Punctuated Equilibrium (almost): Common misconceptions concerning the hypothesis of Punctuated Equilibrium (http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~theobal/PE.html).
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