The Bathroom Wall


With any tavern, one can expect that certain things that get said are out-of-place. But there is one place where almost any saying or scribble can find a home: the bathroom wall. This is where random thoughts and oddments that don’t follow the other entries at the Panda’s Thumb wind up. As with most bathroom walls, expect to sort through a lot of oyster guts before you locate any pearls of wisdom.

The previous wall got a little cluttered, so we’ve splashed a coat of paint on it.


JAD, your post 16114, full of over-the-top invective and plain assertions and so little else, is in fact discussed here. Come on, there are even a couple of scientifically relevant questions there for you (and the rest of us!).

Creationist Timmy

Please descend to The Bathroom Wall. It is lonely down there where I have to deal with the Darwimps all by myself. I need someone to back me up.

Thanks for the complements. But you type to much for my tastes. I’m so busy fightin the atheist scientists I don’t have time to read much. I like to back up Charlie Wagner instead. Years ago he came up with an argument that should win the Noble Prize because it obliterates evolution, and he’s been saying it ever since but the atheists put their hands over their ears and say “I’m not listening BLAH BLAH BLAH”.

Creationists suck.

Damn you steve! Next time …

Timy, We scientists are not all atheists.

From MC Hawking

Fuck The Creationists

Trash Talk Ah yeah, here we go again! Damn! This is some funky shit that I be laying down on your ass. This one goes out to all my homey’s working in the field of evolutionary science. Check it!

Verse 1 Fuck the damn creationists, those bunch of dumb-ass bitches, every time I think of them my trigger finger itches. They want to have their bullshit, taught in public class, Stephen J. Gould should put his foot right up their ass. Noah and his ark, Adam and his Eve, straight up fairy stories even children don’t believe. I’m not saying there’s no god, that’s not for me to say, all I’m saying is the Earth was not made in a day.

Chorus Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck the Creationists.

Trash Talk Break it down. Ah damn, this is a funky jam! I’m about ready to kick this bitch back in. Check it.

Verse 2 Fuck the damn creationists I say it with authority, because kicking their punk asses be me paramount priority. Them wack-ass bitches say, “evolution’s just a theory”, they best step off, them brainless fools, I’ll give them cause to fear me. The cosmos is expanding every second, every day, but their minds are shrinking as they close their eyes and pray. They call their bullshit science like the word could give them cred, if them bitches be scientists then cap me in the head.


Trash Talk Bass! Bring that shit in! Ah yeah, that’s right, fuck them all motherfuckers. Fucking punk ass creationists trying to set scientific thought back 400 years. Fuck that! If them superstitious motherfuckers want to have that kind of party, I’m going to put my dick in the mashed potatoes. Fucking creationists. Fuck them.

Grand Moff, do you think anyone is impressed by those childish lyrics?

I mean, besides me, of course. ;)

Great White: I thought they handled the subject with all the respect it deserves, which makes them an admirable exercise in restraint.

And, lest anyone accuse me of being negative and offering no alternative to ignorant, bone-in-the-nose creationists who want to infect my children with their ignorance, I also offering the following solution from the very same MC:

What We Need More Of Is Science Verse 1 I’m a disciple of science I know the universe is compliance with natural laws, but many place reliance on the psuedo-science of quacks and morons and fools because, their educations deficient, they put faith in omniscient, make believe beings who control their fate, but the Hawk aint with it, dig it, their Holy writ aint the least bit legit, its a bunch of bullshit.

They need to read a book that ain’t so damn old old, let reason take hold, though truth to be told, they’re probably already too far gone, withdrawn, the conclusion foregone. But maybe there is still hope for the young, if they reject the dung being slung from the tongues, of the ignorant fools who call themselves preachers, and listen instead to their science teachers.

Chorus Upon blind faith they place reliance, what we need more of is science!

Trash Talk Uh yeah, that’s right! Fundamentalist assholes! Screw the whole lot of them.

Verse 2 Look, I ain’t thomas Dolby, science doesn’t blind me, think you’re smart? Form a line behind me, you won’t find me, truth to tell, to be a man who suffers fools very well. Quite the opposite in fact, I aint got time to interact, with crystal wearing freaks in need of a smack. New age motherfuckers? Don’t get me started, I made more sense than them, last time I farted.

Not to put too fine a point upon it, but the whole new age movement is full of shit. Please allow me to elaborate, explicate, expatiate. from astral projection to zygomancy its a, mish mash of idiocy. Instead of the archaic worship of seasons, they should explore logic and reason.


Trash Talk Fucking new-agers! Is there any amount of bullshit they won’t swallow? It’s two-thousand-aught-five goddammit! When are these morons gonna join us in the 21st century?

p.s., the tracks themselves are a hoot, if you haven’t already heard them (and I suspect many here have).

If you don’t feel like buying the whole CD, email me and, if you’ve got the bandwidth I’ll send you the track of your choice.


I propose we pay those guys $1000 plus any bail money and legal costs to set up in the parking lot of the Cobb County school of their choice and lay that shit down at top volume during lunch hour.

Actually, I know an anti-racist skinhead (don’t ask) rapper who is also the two-time amateur bantam weight boxing champion in Texas.

Let him lay it down outside of whatever fortress of droolitude you choose. I’ll make the muthahfuckin’ popcorn.

Pardon me that should be Timmy.

I’ve been trying to decide whether or not all this back-and-forth invective is a Good Thing.

On the one hand, it must be gratifying to insult an opponent such as JAD, and he apparently relishes it, as well. So it would seem to be a win-win situation. Perhaps he has an “insult collection”, and trolling here is how he harvests new specimens.

And the exchanges do make for fun reading for a layperson such as myself. But what if JAD’s purpose in provoking the Good Guys into to hurling insults is to get them USED to it? Is he conditioning them away from reasoned argument, getting them used to the Creationist model of engagement? And in this way, weakening their defenses, if only a little, for the day when they are called before a school board to defend Science?

While I wouldn’t begrudge the Good Guys some cathartic fun, I’d hate to see “my team” get even a little soft. Guess I’ll assume that your actual work is keeping you all sufficiently sharp.[…]p/index.html

Despite some similarities with modern-day crocodiles, Uberabasuchus became extinct when the other great dinosaurs died out, and it has no relation to today’s crocodiles, Carvalho said.

What could Carvalho possibly mean when he says “no relation”? Or did he actually say something else …

If you think evolution is real, then I got news for you. It is actually possible to prove it just isn’t true. The proof is quite simple don’t you see? Where did the DNA instructions come from to make up you and me? Why they came from Mom and Dad and that’s a simple fact. Therefore, the code was already there, going a generation back. If the code was already there then there is really nothing new. No new coding for evolution to work on, nothing for it to do. But, people won’t accept it, they just wish that somehow, somewhere, they came from a fish!

Let’s go through it row by row and see what we will get, If we will just all agree with you that we’ve been had. Through variation in our time should clearly stay a low, The deep time rules the evolution, the fact that causes frown. Your grandfather from thousand years back might indeed be like you, But where you get the notion that this ALWAYS must be true? Our parents made us and theirs have made them, and this of course still holds, But why, in time that defies thinking, we couldn’t come from molds? Try looking through the millions of years, try counting them by one, Your whole lifetime, my mistaken friend, slips out before you’re done. The world is change, that’s what we’re saying, it’s not frozen in time, Like picture in a caleidoscope… oh, now I lost a rhyme! :-( Probably it’s pointless to tell you this but I think you are wrong, Perhaps the next time, instead of poem, you should sing us a song!

To strike a note more serious, though, you still say nothing new, But what it boils down to is simply “Don’t know, therefore can’t you.” When you’re not well, you seek a doctor - you accept what he says, Since he has special education (for which he deserves praise). You can’t think that you know the physics if you don’t know the books, You can’t understand anything unless you take good looks, In the end you shall know something, but you won’t something else, And you have to take as true something that somebody else tells. Ah! but evolution is exception, at least as now it stands, Since it is one things EVERYONE thinks he understands! You wouldn’t tell your doctor how to operate your knee, So why is it you come here and “prove” us wrong with glee? The most of arguments your kind is making is just hopelessly wrong. (I shouldn’t use “song” here again, so I smartly rhyme with “gong”!) But where’s the learning curve? Why do you still repeat the same? Would admitting a refute be such unbearable shame? Rhymes make no difference here, this argument has passed, As we now KNOW that changes happen: we have made that test. If you still have to protest, please do your homework first, Read YOURSELF what we have to offer, as we just quench the thirst. Since all we want is KNOWING, and everything bows to that. We won’t stop because someone tells us “You can’t know that.” If theory is wrong, we’ll abandon it in time, What, do you think we’re morons? Or that we do a crime? I’m here and you’re there, the opposite sides of science fence, But please tell me - what about all this damned evidence? If we are wrong so terribly that everyone can see, Why do the puzzle pieces fit, why we’re on winning spree? Why are we making predictions and seeing them come true, When we should just sit cowering knowing that we are due? You might cover ears from blasphemy and refuse to follow through, But this, my friend, I’m telling you, is something MONKEY’d do!

I knew the way JAD acts sounded familiar.

He displays multiple core deficits of autistic disorder and paranoid schizophrenia

Poor social interaction. Poor communication skills, has difficulty listening to others Constant us of repetitive use of favourite phrases. Often talks about one self in third person. Repetitive patterns of behaviour Frequent emotional outburst. Unusual amount of anger. Indifference to the opinions of others A tendency to argue A conviction that you are better than others A conviction that people are out to get you

JAD do you find yourself a tactile defensive? Do you find yourself hypersensitive?

As for contacting my boss go straight ahead. My alias of Wayne Francis is .…woops my real name. Let me give you a little more info about me so you can track me down. I was born in South Weymouth MA I grew up in Stoughton MA I joined the USMC in 1988 and was assigned to the JCS until 1991 where I was transferred to Camp Smith Hawaii FMFPAC for my last 3 years I moved to Australia in June of 1995. For the past year I’ve been working for the Royal Adelaide Hospital. Feel free to contact the Minister of Health here in Australia and explain how I’m a believer of evolution and should be fired. Feel free to go on one of your emotional outburst.

That said I’m happy to say I now have JAD’s post filtered so I’m no longer reading them.

Oh JAD … How did your run for Governor? I’m sure others here would love to hear about your run for political office.

Ed Brayton writes

In two weeks, we will remove the ban on his IP address and hope that in the intervening period, he will rethink his approach to posting here.

Which means, I guess, that I need treat lying creationist apologists with more “respect” right? And if I don’t and someone (e.g., elephantine) who has never posted a single pro-science argument here to my knowledge implies that I’m mentally ill for consistently calling a spade a spade, I need to just roll over?

Is that what you mean by my approach, Ed? If not, why not be more specific? Nothing – absolutely nothing – in my above posts differs in kind or degree from any comment that gets placed here by other commenters every day. Nor does it different from what you and and other posters on this blog write in your own blogs all the time!

Moreover, my so-called “vitriolic” posts are just a fraction of what I contribute here. I post as many links to education, evolution and fundamentalist-related news as anyone on this blog. And I contribute to the scientific discussions as well.

And I don’t lie and play semantic games and act like a hypocrite.

Speaking of which, let’s take a look at this kind thought about Rep. Gerald Allen which Ed posted on his own blog:

Could we dump this cretin into the hole and bury him instead? The world will lose far less of value.[…]al_idiot.php

Real nice, Ed. Real pretty. I’m sure you persuaded a lot of homophobes to “convert” with that comment.

That took two seconds to find, by the way. I’m not going to waste time finding more. We all know there is lots of it.

But why the double standard, Ed?

Why is it that Phil Johnson, Michael Behe, Bill Dembski, Jonathan Wells, Casey Luskin, Bobby Maddex and the other scum of the earth who are trying to “turn the train around,” subvert the Constitution, and establish a de fact theocracy get your sympathy? What have these liars done to deserve immunity from being called on their lying crap at Pandas Thumb?

I’m really curious.

In any event, if I find a suitable medication which causes me to stop harassing anti-science fundamentalists, I can guarantee you I won’t take it. Perhaps I’ll send it to you, Ed, to experiment with. Just don’t give any to PZ Myers or we’ll all be a lot worse off.

See you in two weeks with bells on.


Have you found us yet, Salty?


He displays multiple core deficits of autistic disorder and paranoid schizophrenia

I have an autistic son. I am not sure which of those symptoms you associate with autism, and which you associate with paranoid schizophrenia, and why you linked the two. Just for your edification, I have annotated your list with a yes or no depending on whether, in my experience, it is associated with autism.

Poor social interaction. yes Poor communication skills, yes has difficulty listening to others no Constant us of repetitive use of favourite Often talks about one self in third Repetitive patterns of behaviour yes Frequent emotional outburst. no Unusual amount of anger. no Indifference to the opinions of others no A tendency to argue no A conviction that you are better than others no A conviction that people are out to get you no

I don’t think I am overly sensitive, but my son is such a joy and blessing that I felt compelled to respond.


If you think it’s hypocritical that I write caustic things somewhere else but won’t let you do so here, I suggest you look up the word “context”. There’s nothing wrong with drinking a beer, but you still can’t do it while driving a car or teaching school. There’s nothing wrong with swearing and cursing, in my view, but I still wouldn’t do it in front of my grandmother or in a professional paper. Most people understand that some types of behavior are appropriate in one setting but not in another. What I write on my personal blog, which can indeed be very caustic, is quite different from what I write here. The same is true of PZ Myers, for example, and a few others who also have personal blogs, and that is not the least bit hypocritical. It’s merely understanding context.

As for the rest, there simply is no point in responding to any of it. It’s just more of the same that got you banned in the first place. And the fact that you chose to evade that ban to get in that one last lick rather than being mature enough to accept that we do have the right to decide who gets to post here, in my view, tells us pretty much everything we need to know about the possibility that you will actually change your behavior. So perhaps we should just go ahead and make the ban permanent and save ourselves the trouble.

For your next trick, please ban John A. Davison. I’m tired of sifting through useless crap to read good comments.

I am still looking for what I have been looking for some time now. The posts immediately following 16023, including my post 16114 and the moronic responses that it evoked. It seems that Panda’s Thumb chooses to bury that particular sequence. There is no need to ban me as as long as I keep receiving the sort of special treatment that Pim or someone keeps giving me. It is eerily reminiscent of “Boot Camp,” that intellectual Leavenworth they constructed just for me over at good old EvC. I have lost none of my abilities to close down forums. One of my greatest achievements, with the help of a couple of other skeptics of Darwinian mysticism, Phillip Engle and Peter Borgher, was to permanently disable “brainstorms,” from which it has never recovered as any fool can see should they visit that site. Pim van Meurs used to post there and ARN also. As near as I can tell this is his last stop, his Alamo as it were, or if you prefer “van Meurs last stand,” gallantly defending the biggest hoax in written history. Now if it will make everybody happier to be rid of me, feel free to grant me the greatest gift of all, the most perfect demonstration of ideological bigotry and intellectual insecurity that any real scientist could ever want, lifetime irrevocable banishment. I have had about all I can absorb from this “groupthink” team of intellectual athletes know from this day forward as the “Panda’s Thumb Sixty-Niners.”

John, you’re a deluded as you are long winded. I hope you never breed.

At 76 I guess you won’t have to worry about that. At least you admit that your problem is genetic too. You are beginning to understand the Prescribed Evolutionary Hypothesis. We are all victims of our genes just as Einstein realized long ago. Good luck with yours.

Dear Wayne Francis or whoever you really are in post 16749. If you ever get around to reading any of my papers (heaven forbid) you will discover that my language and attitude are quite different than what you observe concerning my demeanor here and at other internet snake pits. It can be explained with the age old saying:


DonkeyKong 717 Words John A. Davison 1,318 Words DaveScot 2,097 Words Total 4,132 words

This is ~21% of the comment content for just the last 9.5 hours Add to this the comment parts from people replying to these trolls 4,443 words

This makes up for ~45% of the comment content in the last 9.5 hours.

This isn’t counting posts like

Comment # 20301

Frank Schmidt Wrote:

Comment #20301 Posted by Frank Schmidt on March 15, 2005 01:35 PM I made it through the first page of Dembski’s screed …

That I’m guessing started to something about DaveScot comparing himself to Dembski.

I feel sorry for the people that have to read through 15words/min of dribble and the responses to them.

I much rather listen to the 17words/min that have about a 97% chance of having some thoughtful content to them.

Ok .… I’m being a bit unfair. ~7words/min of the 15words/min of dribble and responses are not to bad. The, however, are the responses and often things that have been said to the trolls a number of times before.

JAD must be getting furious by the way. Not only is DaveScot posting about twice as much about 90% of the responses are directed at him.

Don’t follow the slogan of “Just say No” to the trolls. “Just skip the trolls” is the creed we should go by.


The simple truth is that DaveScot and myself have arrived at similar viewpoints entirely independently. The idea of front-loading goes all the way back to William Bateson early in the twentieth century as I documented in the PEH paper. Everything that is now being disclosed by the molecular biologists favors an ancient origin for genetic systems which had been assumed to be of recent origin. More importantly, there is absolutely no evidence that allelic differences which functionally distinguish ourselves from our primate relatives even exist let alone that they might have had evolutionary significance. In short, there is no evidence that the environment in any way had any influence on organic evolution. All tangible evidence indicates that evolution was emergent from within the evolving genomes. There is absolutely no evidence to the contrary. It is not my fault that is unacceptable to the Darwinian mentality. It just happens to be in accord with demonstrable reality and that is all that really matters.

Science proceeds on the basis of that which can be demonstrated, not on the basis of that which is logical or reasonable or even inconceivable. Who are we to say what is inconceivable? I personally feel that the PEH is just inconceivable enough to be correct and I eagerly await any demonstration to the contrary. So far there has been none.

Who is next?

John A. Davison

Wayne Francis is a self-described facultative illiterate who picks and chooses that which he alone decides is worthy of his time and energy. He is especially immune to the words of DaveScot and myself and even takes a certain amount of pride in his discriminating taste. I have no confidence that he will even bother to read this but if he does and should be ignorant enough to respond to it it would be proof positive that he has been lying about what he does not read. Let us now see how he can wiggle his way out of this one.

Who is next?

John A. Davison

About this Entry

This page contains a single entry by Prof. Steve Steve published on February 16, 2005 4:23 PM.

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