Why are there still Monkeys?

| 311 Comments

We’ve all heard the Creationist refrain (also a Dennis Miller joke), “If humans evolved from Monkeys, Why are there still Monkeys?”

See http://our.homewithgod.com/whereeag[…]e/darwin.htm for a badly spelled example:

Darwin claims that because we are similar to monkeys in some ways, then we must have evolved from them. So whay are there still monkeys around then?

This aphorism is also discussed here, here, here, here, here, and most bizarrely here.

As a Friday Treat, I’m posting a Torte and a Re-Torte about this curious argument.

Have a great weekend! -Dave

311 Comments

It is not as good as mine.

“If God made man from dirt, why is there still dirt?”

I used that on a creationist in last fall and got the most confused look back.

“If God made man from dirt, why is there still dirt?”

Reed - that is a gem. I’m going to plagiarize it shamelessly. Hope you don’t mind.

Hmmm. If mammals came from reptiles, why are there still lizards? If reptiles came from amphibians, why are there still frogs? If amphibians came from fish, why are there still fish? If birds came from dinosaurs, why are there still… oops, never mind that one.

This is convenient. I just finished a page on a (superficial) form of reasoning one step up from parroting aphorisms.

Uh oh, creationists just brought out the intellectual heavies

It’s not a good idea to complain about someone else’s spelling and then misspell “Protestantism”.

It’s striking how weak your reasoning is. I mean, atheists/evolutionists are always trumpeting their ability in critical thinking and logic.

Protestants didn’t evolve from Roman Catholics. Nor did Adam evolve from dust.

Any ‘confused’ look you saw in Christians probably had to do with them reacting to your uni-brow and lack of a forehead…

Protestants didn’t evolve from Roman Catholics.

So what do you suppose they were protesting against, moron?

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia[…]tantism.html

Protestantism, one of the three major divisions of Christianity, the others being Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Protestantism began as a movement to reform the Western Christian church in the 16th century, resulting in the Protestant Reformation, which severed the reformed churches from the Roman Catholic Church. The declared aim of the original reformers was to restore the Christian faith as it had been at its beginning, while keeping what they thought valuable from the Roman Catholic tradition that had developed during the intervening centuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther

Martin Luther (originally Martin Luder or Martinus Luther) (November 10, 1483 – February 18, 1546) was a German theologian of the Christian religion and an Augustinian monk whose teachings inspired the Protestant Reformation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustinian

The Augustinians, named after Saint Augustine of Hippo (died AD 430), are several Roman Catholic monastic orders

Protestants recovered apostolic Biblical doctrine (i.e. what existed prior to the Roman Catholic church). It’s not evolution. It’s like a modern day human ‘evolving’ into Adam. Think next time.

And there’s also my treatment of the argument, at http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hom[…]qs.html#apes, from which the EvoWiki article is probably derived.

In response to ts: Steve is right on one point; Protestantism may have split off from Catholicism, but Protestants didn’t evolve from Catholics (they still interbreed very nicely, thank you)

In response to Steve: that Protestants didn’t evolve from Catholics is true but irrelevant. The point is that when an original population splits, and one part becomes something else (Protestants from Catholics, humans from apes) there’s no reason why the rest of the original population should likewise change.

Jim Foley Wrote:

In response to ts: Steve is right on one point; Protestantism may have split off from Catholicism, but Protestants didn’t evolve from Catholics (they still interbreed very nicely, thank you)

You’re as big a moron as he is, since a) there’s intraspecies evolution b) the word “evolve” is not limited to its biological sense. At least you managed to grasp that this isn’t relevant to the analogy.

Steve Wrote:

Protestants recovered apostolic Biblical doctrine (i.e. what existed prior to the Roman Catholic church).

As noted in the citation, the Protestants kept “what they thought valuable from the Roman Catholic tradition that had developed during the intervening centuries”. Not that this matters.

Think next time.

You’re a cretin.

Protestantism may have split off from Catholicism, but Protestants didn’t evolve from Catholics (they still interbreed very nicely, thank you)

Just to make this crystal clear to the dunderheads: The claim was that Protestanism (sic) evolved from Catholicism, not that Protestants evolved from Catholics. And it did, regardless of whether it reclaimed earlier thought. You could make the point that this weakens the analogy, but it’s a pathetically silly objection that misses the point, namely that the question “whay (sic) are there still monkeys around then?” is imbecilic.

OK then: Why are there no inbetween monkey and human beings around? Come on, evolutionists! Dip into your post-modern ‘language means what we want it to mean’ bag of conceits and dance for us an energetic little retreat…

ts Wrote:

You’re as big a moron as he is…

Ummmm.… Jim Foley’s no moron. His Hominid Fossils article over at talkorigins.org has received accolades in magazines like Science and The American Biology Teacher.

So careful with that friendly fire! (And better yet, save the epithets like “moron” for more appropriate fora like the talk.origins newsgroup.)

OK then: Why are there no inbetween monkey and human beings around?

Because, as was noted in the references sited in the article (perhaps you too stupid or lazy to read them, or afraid of what you might learn), humans and monkeys are descended from a common ancestor. Your question is like asking someone who says you’re descended from your grandfather why no one in between you and your cousin is around. Now imagine going back a lot more generations than your grandfather, and imagine that your cousin looks like a monkey .…

If you stop feeding the troll, it might get disgruntled and wander off …

-Dan S.

It just fun to get you evolutionists to spit your boilerplate… And, um, right, by the way. Maybe though just entertain the possibility that you have a Creator. Your pile of tiddly-winks you have to build and attempt to balance on the head of a pin is such baggage for you to have to carry around all the time. And such changes! “Those damn scientists coming up with their new discoveries and making us evolutionists have to change our story constantly!!! Damn them! But, to carry on the fight against God (which we will win, at least it’s too scary to think otherwise at this point) we just have to soldier on with it (not that I am for anything to do with ‘soldiering’, mind you)…”

Ummmm . … Jim Foley’s no moron.

Then he shouldn’t act like one. The fact that Protestants and Catholics can interbreed obviously has no bearing on whether Protestantism evolved from Catholicism, any more than the fact that Americans, Europeans, and Indians can interbreed has any bearing on whether English evolved from Indo-European languages. Nor does the fact that dogs and wolves can interbreed show that dogs didn’t evolve from wolves. Nor does the fact that much of neo-con political philosophy evolved from Trotskyism mean that neo-cons and Trotskyites can’t interbreed. etc.

If you stop feeding the troll, it might get disgruntled and wander off …

“Steve is right on one point” was troll filet mignon; who could resist such a tasty morsel?

Les Lane pointed us to a website that cited the testimony of a seventh-grade student:

Seventh-grader Spencer Genson argued at the meeting, “I believe my rights as a United States citizen are being violated by these teachings … I have a bible and when I read my bible it tells me that I’m a descendant from Adam and Eve, but when I read my curriculum in school it tells me that I come from a monkey.” Rather than becoming defensive, the school board lauded Spencer’s initiative and intellect in pursuing his convictions.

Genson, an honors student at Leverette Junior High, says the first amendment of the Constitution allows him the right to free speech – then noted references to God in the Pledge of Allegiance said before each board meeting. “If a lot of us believe in God then why isn’t Christianity taught in the public school system. We are reading in social studies about Hinduism and Buddhism, but I don’t hear a thing about Christianity,” said Genson.

1. His curriculum doesn’t tell him he’s not a descendant of Adam and Eve. It’s not the curriculum that has difficulties reasoning here.

2. The kid would do better to read the Boy Scout Handbook – there is no curriculum in America, and certainly no textbook published in 80 years (if ever) that says humans came from monkeys. The Boy Scout Handbook would instruct the kid in the importance of being honest, the importance of being helpful to others, and in the importance of reverence for the views of others. The kid appears to have missed those lessons in whatever ethics and morals classes he’s taking in whatever venue. Of course, it may be that he is unable to discern fact from fiction because he hasn’t fully absorbed the curriculum at his school. That’s not a plea against evolution then – it’s an implicit plea to teach the facts first, teach the skills necessary to discern the facts, and quit clouding the kids’ minds with bizarre claims.

3. The First Amendment allows the kid the right of free speech – he may publicly wonder why the school doesn’t teach Christianity as the one true religion. Of course, the First Amendment is also part of a Constitutional structure which forbids the government from making such advocacy, the better to protect the kid’s right to the free exercise of his religion. This is an issue for his social studies classes, especially history and government. It appears that the kid has had his own intellectual well poisoned against what the schools offer, and he’s rejecting all of it. That’s not Christianity, it’s nihilism. Of course, he’ll never know that from his current knowledge base. Is that a problem his Sunday school teachers worry about? They should.

4. If he’s missing the parts in his social studies books about Christianity, he’s deficient in reading skills and the use of a book’s table of contents and index. Especially after the Texas schoolbook adoption processes, all U.S. social studies books emphasize Christianity’s role in history and culture. The kid needs to read the book.

5. What sort of a parent doesn’t lovingly correct these errors in a kid’s testimony before letting him make his plea in public?

6. What sort of a school board doesn’t know the content of their own curricula, so that they could make acknowledgement of what is really taught in the courses they are legally responsible to supervise? This is not a case against teaching evolution. It’s a case against electing public officials who abdicate, shirk, or avoid their duties without thought.

>neo-con political philosophy evolved from Trotskyism

Been picking up Alice-in-Leftistland memes from the ‘fully retreated into unreality’ leftwing websites have you? And you call others ‘moron’?

You’re currently living in darkness and illusion, ts. Read the Word of God. Just put your vanity and worldly pride on a leash for a portion of your day and make the effort to read the Word of God. No, you won’t understand it at first. No, you won’t ‘agree’ with what you read. Yes, you will think it’s ‘stupid’. Just do yourself a favor an download it. Give your at least a chance to ascend out of the darkness you are currently held prisoner in. Just give yourself a chance, ts… Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Now it is high time to awake out of sleep…

It is Christians that have brought to the atheists and other anti-Christ parasites of the world technological and scientific advancement.

All atheists have is their ‘theory of evolution’ which never contributed anything but the dumbing down of society and a Satanic ‘permission’ to not treat their fellow humans as being the image of God. Contratulations, atheists, for your wonderful contribution.

One poster named Steve said:

It just fun to get you evolutionists to spit your boilerplate … And, um, right, by the way. Maybe though just entertain the possibility that you have a Creator. Your pile of tiddly-winks you have to build and attempt to balance on the head of a pin is such baggage for you to have to carry around all the time. And such changes! “Those damn scientists coming up with their new discoveries and making us evolutionists have to change our story constantly!!! Damn them! But, to carry on the fight against God (which we will win, at least it’s too scary to think otherwise at this point) we just have to soldier on with it (not that I am for anything to do with ‘soldiering’, mind you) … “

Ah, then the humorous rebuttal to creationist boilerplate misled you into thinking this was a discussion where tossing boilerplate is considered argument?

Maybe you should entertain the thought that what you regard as a creator asks you to be respectful of the views of others, the facts, and creation – and that maybe, just maybe, you’ve been infected with enough hubris that you don’t see that you’ve strayed from defending the idea that there is a supernatural creator to attacking knowledge and defending ignorance.

Additional facts don’t plague the scientist, not even those who study and understand Darwinian idea. New discoveries make it more difficult, day-by-day and year-by-year, to defend attacks on the science that heals the sick and feeds everybody.

In short, the justification you cite for attacking evolution is theologically unsound, Steve.

Um, Steve, don’t look now, but your history fly is down.

It was Christians who brought us the theory of evolution, too.

Let the facts get in the way of your rant, just this once. Go get another cup of coffee, think about the fact that at least 40% of scientists in America are believers (my experience is it’s much higher in biology). Consider that Charles Darwin is interred in Westminster Abbey and that maybe, just maybe, there is more to science and theology than tossing “boilerplate.”

PBS coverage of the Kansas debate

DOUGLAS PHENIX (Chemist and Presbyterian Minister): Imagine that there was a high school with a very good baseball team, which had played for many years and over time had developed lots of winning strategies until one day, the tennis coach started accusing the baseball coach of unfairly discriminating against the tennis team by refusing to allow the baseball players to play by the rules of tennis.

DE SAM LAZARO: Science calls for natural, empirical explanations, he said, not supernatural ones. And science class cannot be a democracy.

SAM WINE (Astronomy Teacher): What comes next? What other groups will demand and expect equal time in the science standards?

DE SAM LAZARO: As if on cue, there was a tongue-in-cheek response.

Photo of ANDREW STANGL Mr. STANGL: When the schools undertake to teach alternative creation theories, I want mine included. It is my belief that flying saucers with aliens from the planet Druesbud, another universe, landed on Earth 4,400 years ago.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionand[…]6/cover.html

think about the fact that at least 40% of scientists in America are believers (my experience is it’s much higher in biology)

My experience is that is is much higher in physics thatn biology. No matter, the truth is, to find hard core athiests you’ll have better luck in the humanities (and even “religious studies”) than in the physics department.

Just the fact that the kid was a 7th grader already led me to believe he hadn’t read or heard a thing about Evolution as its properly taught. My 7th grade (GT) bio class barely touched the subject (but certainly didn’t say “descended from monkeys”, just something to the effect of “related to like cousins”). The intro-to-evolution stuff (which is the curriculum being debated) is all at the high school level.

So really, the kid had no pretense for speaking up there just from that contextual value. Having a high school 11th grader who had already been through the evolution instruction in the biology class speak would have been far more relevant and applicable.

in the end, using this 7th grader was strictly a public-opinion play, trying to get the “out of the mouths of babes” innocent truth that had no relevance (or truth) to the debate at hand. and by doing so, the parents and school system have cost this kid his innocense. this kid was used as a puppet by others with an agenda, and he may never know it happened or why.

It really surprises me, the humorlessness a few commenters have exhibited here. Lighten up, folks!

I suspect that there are Creationist biology teachers out there who are telling their students “according to the theory of evolution, we came from monkeys (if you can believe that, heh heh)”.

It really surprises me, the humorlessness a few commenters have exhibited here. Lighten up, folks!

That you find it worth commenting on suggests that you’re taking it too seriously.

I’m not sure it would do any damage.

As Dennis Miller (a non-Christian) once said. “If evolution is true, and apes evolved into human beings, why are there still apes?”

I hope this is Dennis Miller in his role as “Comedian”, and not Dennis Miller in his role as “Stupid Person”.

The Dennis Miller attribution is certainly false. That is from a list of trite little sayings that have been circulating the internet for years. I’ve seen it attributed to him, George Carlin, Jerry Seinfeld and a host of other comedians.

In reality, considering how unimaginative and stupid the sayings are, it was written by some bored half-wit wasting company time. It was then attributed to various famous people in an attempt to give it some sort of “credibility” as a professional bit of humor.

Miller may be conservative politically, but he’s not a total moron, which he would have to be to say such a thing.

“Yeah! They’re trying to use Dennis Miller against us, but we’re on to that!!”

Can’t get anything by you atheists/evolutionists…

“The ‘theory of evolution’ is nothing more than the distracting ‘shiny object’ of each generation’s drooling morons.” - Michel de Montaigne

Steve Wrote:

The Kingdom of God is not a tyrannical regime. It’s a Kingdom. And the state and standing of Christians in that Kingdom is of adopted children of the King. Heirs of the Living God. Kings in their own right. Prophets, priests, and kings in their own right.

I’m gonna be a king!

Then, I’m gonna raise an army and take over heaven. And when I’m done, it’s gonna be a rockin’ party all the time!

>I’m gonna be a king!

Hold on there, cowboy. Not just anybody can be a king. You have to have God’s law written on your heart…

Steve Wrote:

Hold on there, cowboy. Not just anybody can be a king. You have to have God’s law written on your heart …

Does it hurt?

You have to have God’s law written on your heart …

More like Steve’s law masquerading as God’s law.

Steve is not nearly humble enough to be doing God’s work. Way too spiritually arrogant, trying to pass his own word off as God’s Word.

Where was Steve when I needed him… I spent 40+ yrs in the Christian cult… had I been able to consider his Godly wisdom earlier in life, I would have been convinced of the stupidity of the Bible believing dogma & embraced atheism so much earlier… it took years of reading (the Bible) & listening to the self-righteous babble of Christians to be convicted of my idiotic faith in JC… Steve could have sent me running for reality a lot sooner…

At the turn of the 20th century there were many flat-earthers that used exactly the same argument that Steve is now making. For example David Wardlaw Scott wrote “I believe the real source of Modern Astronomy to have been Satan. From his first temptation of Eve in the Garden of Eden until now, his great object has been to throw discredit on the Truth of God”. Does that sound familiar Steve? I wonder Steve, why don’t you believe that the sun revolves around the earth? The Bible says it does and you don’t have any proof that it doesn’t. Or maybe you do believe the sun revolves around the earth. LOL

About this Entry

This page contains a single entry by Dave Thomas published on February 25, 2005 8:44 PM.

Answering Diepenbrock’s Challenge was the previous entry in this blog.

Penis evolution is the next entry in this blog.

Find recent content on the main index or look in the archives to find all content.

Categories

Archives

Author Archives

Powered by Movable Type 4.361

Site Meter