Bloomberg: Intelligent Design and inferior education

| 71 Comments

- Republican Mayor Michael Bloomberg warned medical school graduates Thursday that centuries of progress in scientific research are under attack by those who oppose stem cell research and dispute evolution and global warming.

Bloomberg: Science under attack in stem cell research debate by SARA KUGLER, Associated Press Writer

On the topic of Intelligent Design, the republican mayor wasted no words

He then ridiculed the campaign to teach schoolchildren about “intelligent design” alongside evolution. The belief proposes that living organisms are so complex that they must have been created by some type of higher force, and many conservatives, including Bush, say schools should present both concepts.

The mayor said children who learn it are receiving an inferior education that puts them at a disadvantage later.

He told the medical students that they share the same burden carried by the school’s first graduates more than 100 years ago, when the field was “dominated by quacks and poorly trained physicians.”

Their task, Bloomberg said, is to “defend the integrity and power of science.”

They are finally starting to get it… ID is scientifically vacuous.

71 Comments

The mayor said children who learn it are receiving an inferior education that puts them at a disadvantage later.

Cue up the Discovery Institute peanut gallery: “Duuhh, my dokter doan need no evowooshunary biology tuh tell me dat I need to eat less fat, duuhhhh.”

Cue up the medical school fundy apologists: “I graduated at the top of my class. My belief that humans and chimps were created independently by God does not affect my skill at telling my obese patients to eat less carbohydrates and high fat foods.”

Cue up the fundy software engineers: “My name is on five patents and I am not convinced that the Darwinists can explain how a fly turned into a dog.”

Cue up the fundy lawyers: “Parents have the right to teach children whatever crap they want. It’s an American tradition which the Supreme’s have recognized. Besides, I haven’t had a biology class since tenth grade and I passed my state’s bar exam.”

Chickens coming home to roost at a GOP hen house? That will set a few tongues wagging. Expect more rat escapology soon, the Big Ark is listing and deck-chairs need re-arranging, Fundies quietly asked to go down to steerage where McCain entertains them with “nothing up my sleeves routine”. The DI will say educated and cultured “Activist Mayors” are against equal time teaching of untestable dogma doublegood goodthink. Inexperienced PR intern (student lawyer) spell checks latest script for Bushco and turns doublegood goodthink into double hoodwink, Mr 28% doesn’t notice.

k.e. Wrote:

Chickens coming home to roost at a GOP hen house?

Wish it were so, but no. Bloomberg is a Republican largely as an accident of the electoral system. He has no support within the GOP. Even Rudi Giuliani is too liberal to be nominated for the presidency. Bloomberg is considerably to the left of Rudi.

It remains an unfortunate fact that the Religious Right is still the loudest faction in the GOP, and while savvier GOP politicians avoid the subject of evolution like the plague, they are still under considerable pressure to advance the issue.

Gerard Harbison wrote: It remains an unfortunate fact that the Religious Right is still the loudest faction in the GOP, and while savvier GOP politicians avoid the subject of evolution like the plague, they are still under considerable pressure to advance the issue.

‘Tis a shame. Some will recognize this;

That’s my Middle West … the street lamps and sleigh bells in the frosty dark. … I see now that this has been a story of the West, after all—Tom and Gatsby, Daisy and Jordan and I, were all Westerners, and perhaps we possessed some deficiency in common which made us subtly unadaptable to Eastern life. That’s my Middle West … the street lamps and sleigh bells in the frosty dark. … I see now that this has been a story of the West, after all—Tom and Gatsby, Daisy and Jordan and I, were all Westerners, and perhaps we possessed some deficiency in common which made us subtly unadaptable to Eastern life

Honor has migrated east.

The important thing, Registered User, is that Mayor Bloomberg is providing lots of fresh motivation for ID supporters to keep patiently working towards the Paradigm-Shift.

So, for me, sincere thanks to Hizzoner, extreme biases notwithstanding.

FL

Off course it’s better once. Korn gods accepted

Even if it is obvious for its rarity, it is encouraging that he spoke so clearly against ID. A few pundits have voiced such opinions, but precious few actual elected officials from the Republican party have stood up to say the obvious. About the only other example I could name would be Christopher Dodd of Connecticut.

The important thing, Registered User, is that Mayor Bloomberg is providing lots of fresh motivation for ID supporters to keep patiently working towards the Paradigm-Shift.

Working? You must mean press releases and lawsuits. ‘Cause after all these decades there’s still NO research and NO theory. But hey, that’s how ‘paradigm shifts’ always happen, eh?

Indeed Arden ‘paedomoric paradigm shifts’ otherwise known as demskian idolatory a the postmodern disease theory of elvilutionary( or Darwinian) resistance. Composed 28% backwash 72% can’t be bothered. Lets hope not.

Did you guys catch Judge Jones in Wired? http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/[…]6/jones.html

Bloomberg…my kinda politician. He adds a whole new concept to the term “political science”.

Excerpts from NYT’s excellent article:

““Today, we are seeing hundreds of years of scientific discovery being challenged by people who simply disregard facts that don’t happen to agree with their agenda,” Mr. Bloomberg said. “Some call it pseudoscience, others call it faith-based science, but when you notice where this negligence tends to take place, you might as well call it ‘political science.’ “

FL Wrote:

…keep patiently working towards the Paradigm-Shift.

Anybody who actually uses the term “paradigm shift” loses all credibility in my book. The term has been completely co-opted by antiscience. I’ve heard many scientists discuss overturning accepted ideas and not one has used that term (a clue: nobody had to die for the new ideas to get accepted, it was always a matter of sufficient evidence). I’ve really got to get around to reading that copy of Kune that I bought.

Indeed Sciencenut

Indentity Politics think 1930 !warning! long read.….not something IDers are capable of …unless FredDinosaur and FlintGoebels are sharng a Big Mac http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/i[…]ty-politics/

The important thing, Registered User, is that Mayor Bloomberg is providing lots of fresh motivation for ID supporters to keep patiently working towards the Paradigm-Shift.

My mom provided all the motivation she could for me to clean up my room.

Hm. Never did when I was a kid.

Get back to us, FL, when ID supports GET OFF THEIR DUFFS AND START DOING SOME WORK.

Bloomberg’s remarks aren’t surprising, nor especially meaningful by themselves. He’s the mayor of NYC, which is not well-disposed toward Jersey or anything else outside of NYC–let alone Midwestern rural politics. The Jewish population of NYC, in particular, is not fond of Xian theocracy, and Bloomberg is himself Jewish, is he not?

There also is a good deal of actual intelligence and learning in NYC, with little patience in general (NYers aren’t really very rude, but they usually are in a hurry). A bunch of know-nothing Xian apologists cackling over their “discovery” of complexity isn’t going to impress NYC, and Bloomberg would be a fool to throw a bone to the IDiots within the precincts of that metropolis. He’d do even better to call the IDiots on their IDiocy, unless, of course, he hoped to run nationally on the GOP ticket (he didn’t have a prayer even before the recent remarks).

The good that could come of this would be if Bloomberg’s comments stand with little opposition outside of the spokesmen for the yokels. Robertson may as well condemn NYC to hurricanes and earthquakes, and Bloomberg to health problems, for comic relief among the majority, and donations from DaveScot or that sort of dolt. Dembski will say the predictable things, if he chooses to comment. So what?

If GWB and the rest of the power structure let Bloomberg’s comments stand without opposition, then he’s done some good for science within the GOP. He can get away with pro-science statements, since he can hardly move beyond NY politics in any case. McCain couldn’t, even if he wanted to. McCain can let the pro-science forces have their say through the mouth of Bloomberg, though, if he’s willing to see science make some headway in his party.

All that matters are the reactions to Bloomberg’s statements, then. If powerful republicans maintain silence over his remarks, science profits a bit from Bloomberg’s comments. And I’m guessing that this is what will happen, in fact, since the GOP can’t antagonize science too much, and have largely maintained a stony silence since Dover.

Glen D http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm

And I’m guessing that this is what will happen, in fact, since the GOP can’t antagonize science too much, and have largely maintained a stony silence [on ID] since Dover.

Just the correction in brackets.

Glen D http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm

Oh dear. “Paradigm shifts” and “extreme biases.”

I don’t know who you’re talking about with the bias, but if it’s a reference to Judge Jones you must be off your rocker. He’s a Republican who was nominated by Bush. His court record is manifestly not liberal, let alone activist. You just need to accept that it isn’t because there’s a big conspiracy amongst “evolutionists” - it’s just because the school board, being backed by the Disco Institute, deserved to lose the case.

And, by the way, there’s no more going to be a “paradigm shift” in biology away from evolution than there is in physics away from gravity. The fact that you think 99.9% of scientists are somehow just ignorant of THE TRUTH - which you and a bunch of half-educated idiots with degrees from unaccredited fundamentalist universities are apparently the only ones to possess - shows how stupid your movement is. You have to misrepresent, twist logic and convince yourself that the overwhelming scientific consensus is just some kind of huge mistake or conspiracy on the part of people much better educated than yourself. It’s a joke. It’s the same sort of thing as Holocaust denial (and no, I’m not accusing you of being a Holocaust denier before you even start).

Hey F.L. did you hear that? Mephistpo just called you a wanker. Geez what with Lenny’s questions to answer and all that you must have your hands full. Do we call out the homophone squad for a bit of S&M or are you just going to ostrich us again???????

Thwip Mephisto sorry :)

Hey FL, I thought your next post was supposed to continue from where you left (and answer to Lenny) on the Vatican astronomer thread…

…Did I miss something?

The important thing, Registered User, is that Mayor Bloomberg is providing lots of fresh motivation for ID supporters to keep patiently working towards the Paradigm-Shift.

So, for me, sincere thanks to Hizzoner, extreme biases notwithstanding.

Yeah, yeah, we know that Xian revisionists think that an orientation toward the world is “biased”. What is actually new, in the last couple hundred years or so, is the condemnation of trying to get an orientation toward the world and its practical matters (which we all must do to some extent) by actually relying upon “worldly” concepts. Previously, Puritans were often the ones who explicitly dealt with the world in worldly terms (while keeping their eye on heaven), and many (hardly all) academics kept to a metaphysical orientation. Of course, the present problem stems from the fact that the empiricism that Puritans earlier embraced betrayed them in biology, hence the current blanket condemnation of understanding “God’s creation” under its own terms.

I guess it’s the slowness and thickness of today’s Puritans (the brighter and better-educated puritans have moved on) that means FL, Dembski, and the others would take up a metaphysical orientation in a truly pathetic attempt to shore up a religion that has not the confidence to stick to its spiritual claims.

What I really wanted to point out, though, is the use of a mostly abandoned jargon (“paradigm-shift”) to relabel the old, “we’re going to win in the end, and you’ll pay” Puritan idea. Of course FL intends a “paradigm-shift” merely through evangelization. He has never moved beyond that level in all the time that he has been on PT. And he’s more honestly religious, after all, not really confusing “the Truth” with something found scientifically (not in his core claims).

It’s only a matter of who wins, actually, to these creationists/IDists, and not how you play the game, nor that winning ought to be based on merit. Ressentiment has transformed their language and even their beliefs about their desire to simply win, no matter what the truth (small t) is, but it’s all about winning. They want a “paradigm shift” in order to win–not to deal better with scientific matters–but to gain control of a science that has not supported their claims in recent decades. If we were committed to ideas that science didn’t support, we might oppose science too.

Note the tired cant of FL, too. “Fresh motivation” from Bloomberg’s statements. This is old, recycled religious language, for Satan is purportedly one who gains “fresh motivation” to tempt and do other evil deeds each time Puritans achieve some success (stickers on textbooks?), and likewise their preachers continually proclaim that their congregations are to receive fresh motivation each time Satan wins one–like at Dover. They just say it, there is essentially no attempt to justify the statement, since, of course, it’s all Truth handed down from the pulpit.

It is good to have ol’ FL here, naturally. Dembski often falls into the same sort of religious rhetoric, but he does guard against it. FL is more the old-timey Puritan, who writes again and again what Dembski and other more sophisticated con-men exhibit in more muted fashion. It’s helpful when the old-timers respond in the expected fashion to the preachments of the IDists, which they do since they understand the language, showing again and again that there has been really no shift in their Bible commitments in 200 years.

The only people who are possibly confused about the aim of ID are some of ID’s spokespersons. FL, and the whole mindless herd on UD, are never confused about the goal to establish religion in public education.

Glen D http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm

Working? You must mean press releases and lawsuits. ‘Cause after all these decades there’s still NO research and NO theory. But hey, that’s how ‘paradigm shifts’ always happen, eh?

You’ll probably enjoy this.

Critics of ID abound, which as I have pointed out in a previous post on The Design Paradigm, can be a very good thing for ID. How is an intelligent design researcher supposed to approach critiques leveled against ID? What kinds of critics are out there and how can one tell which are helpful and which are simply belligerent? This essay is intended to lay out a few helpful definitions and pointers for those seriously researching intelligent design. …

ROFL. Nice page. It pretty much goes on to say that the wrong sort of critic is the ‘scientific’ one - the one with a degree. ;) They’re apparently “antithetical” to ID.

Wouldn’t want to try and pull religious hucksterism with someone who knows what they’re talking about, would we?

Is it me or since the debacle at Dover the IDiots have been in retreat. Of course not willingly. They are whining, kicking and screaming murder all along. But it seems that the mainstream media is finally begining to catch up with the ID nonsense and are not so easy to buy into the “controversy” argument. Heck, even OH drop it like hot potatoes.

“The important thing, Registered User, is that Mayor Bloomberg is providing lots of fresh motivation for ID supporters to keep patiently working towards the Paradigm-Shift.

So, for me, sincere thanks to Hizzoner, extreme biases notwithstanding.

FL”

you wouldn’t happen to have any of this work at hand, would you, FL? I mean, if ID is such a valid scientific theory, where are all the research papers, experimental results, design models and so forth?

Comment #102370

Posted by Registered User on May 26, 2006 12:42 AM (e) | kill

The mayor said children who learn it are receiving an inferior education that puts them at a disadvantage later.

Cue up the Discovery Institute peanut gallery: “Duuhh, my dokter doan need no evowooshunary biology tuh tell me dat I need to eat less fat, duuhhhh.”

Cue up the medical school fundy apologists: “I graduated at the top of my class. My belief that humans and chimps were created independently by God does not affect my skill at telling my obese patients to eat less carbohydrates and high fat foods.”

Cue up the fundy software engineers: “My name is on five patents and I am not convinced that the Darwinists can explain how a fly turned into a dog.”

Cue up the fundy lawyers: “Parents have the right to teach children whatever crap they want. It’s an American tradition which the Supreme’s have recognized. Besides, I haven’t had a biology class since tenth grade and I passed my state’s bar exam.”

LOL!

Cue up fundy lawyer Luskin: We ain’t need your atheism science cause we gots a new science which ain’t religious and is very sciencey. bystander: How come you require your scientists to be christians? Luskin: Mind your own business!

I can’t help but disagree with the mayor’s comments about recieving an inferior education because Intellegent Design Theory is taught. It is ludicrous that a thought or a theory that will actually make an individual less intelligent a.k.a ‘Stupid’. It is an alternate thought, an idea, a solution to the vacancy of explaination to a complex system like the one we live in.

Can someone explain why I will have reduced mental capacity if I listen to Intellegent Design theory?

I understand that one reason some supposedly educated individuals feel that ID theory flies in the face of thousands of years of progress that science has given us, losing the desire to pursue the actual explaination to why this creature or thing is the way it is. I think that no matter what theory we choose, we as human beings need and will keep pursuing this desire to figure this world out. Belief in a higher power or “Intellegent Designer” has always been a part of science up until very recently. Why is this now a detriment to science?

BTW Can someone give me some rational examples why Intelligent Design is wrong and why Darwin’s theories are correct?

Statisticly, the development of this world ecosystem in a mere 100 trillion years is still too short of time to develop from nothingness. I just want an explaination to show me conclusively that evolution happened.

Syntax Error: mismatched tag at line 8, column 115, byte 338 at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.16/mach/XML/Parser.pm line 187.

Can someone explain why I will have reduced mental capacity if I listen to Intellegent Design theory?

Yer a walkin’ example.

Ba-RUMP-BUMP!

Belief in a higher power or “Intellegent Designer” has always been a part of science up until very recently

No, it hasn’t. You’ve been listening too much to ID. Belief in a higher power may have been a part of SCIENTISTS, but it’s NEVER been a part of science.

BTW Can someone give me some rational examples why Intelligent Design is wrong and why Darwin’s theories are correct?

You do science. You get results. Results fit Darwin much better than intelligent design.

Can’t get more rational than that.

CH, what you’re saying, and the majority of what you will say in the coming weeks on this board, are already refuted for your convenience.

except for the 100 trillion years isn’t statistically long enough for an ecosystem to develop from nothingness thing. First I’ve heard of that.

So when are you off to NZ, STJ? And which part?

In the fall, most likely.

was thinking of Wellington to start. I’d also like to investigate some of the islands off the north coast (near Whangarei); apparently some great Scuba diving there, and I’ve been out of water far too long.

But can I interest you in a tuatara or two?

Alas, I can just imagine the paperwork . … .

Can someone smuggle me a Komodo dragon?

Wellington is NZ’s equivalent of Melbourne. Cafes and culture; trendy people wear black; and generally cold, gray and windy.

Diving around the Poor Knights Islands is fantastic. You’ll love it.

Kiwi -

do you dive? any specific recommendations for who i should hook up with to check out the islands?

My wetsuit has shrunk since I bought it 20 years ago (it was the height of fashion then - a nice blue and silver Seal Skin), and I haven’t had a proper dive for about 5 years (alternately freezing in my 5 ml off Westport, NZ - checking out seals and crustose thingies for work, and relaxing in the bath temp water off Cairns - checking out the Great Barrier Reef.). I will contact a few mates in Northland to find out who are the best people to hook up with for diving PKIs.

Cheers

relaxing in the bath temp water off Cairns - checking out the Great Barrier Reef.).

bastard.

;)

I do miss the time i spent doing research in French Polynesia more than occasionally.

crustose thingies for work…

Oh? spongiform crustose thingies, or what?

do tell.

My wetsuit has shrunk since I bought it 20 years ago…

lol. yeah, mine too, and I only bought it ten years (and 30 less pounds) ago.

btw, if you do manage to get a hold of your PKI connections, could i impose on you to send the info here:

[Enable javascript to see this email address.]

thanks

I was helping a mate out with a preliminary nearshore marine survey along the South Island’s West Coast. He was mainly interested in algae, although we were also looking at small fish around small reefs and crustose sponges.

I am really a terrestrial ecologist, and just dived for pleasure rather than profession. It’s like not being paid for sex!

As I recall, it was bloody freezing with me in my 5ml 2 piece. My mate was in a 10ml one piece with hood. Still, it was near the seal colony and they were very inquisitive, which was great. I just ignored the fact that the great whites were probably sitting just outside my peripheral vision!

Are you interested in great whites? I can put you in touch with Clinton Duffy who is currently studying them for the Department of Conservation.

I was helping a mate out with a preliminary nearshore marine survey along the South Island’s West Coast. He was mainly interested in algae, although we were also looking at small fish around small reefs and crustose sponges.

I am really a terrestrial ecologist, and just dived for pleasure rather than profession. It’s like not being paid for sex!

I’ve often had debates with friends about whether their best dive experiences were better than sex.

Truly, once they thought about it, 9 out of 10 picked the dive experience, myself included.

As I recall, it was bloody freezing with me in my 5ml 2 piece. My mate was in a 10ml one piece with hood.

10ml?? dam*n! and here i thought my 7ml two-piece was thick!

Still, it was near the seal colony and they were very inquisitive, which was great. I just ignored the fact that the great whites were probably sitting just outside my peripheral vision!

depends on the time of year, but certainly possible. about 1 diver every other year or so gets hit by white’s in the “red triangle” between Monterey Bay and the Farallon Islands, CA. Still, with all the divers in the water every year, you were more likely to die from an auto accident on your way to or from the dive site.

Are you interested in great whites? I can put you in touch with Clinton Duffy who is currently studying them for the Department of Conservation.

LOL. funny you should mention that. I used to be the science director for an NGO that studied white sharks in the area i just mentioned (Monterey Bay and North).

at this point, I’m gonna switch this convo to email if you don’t mind?

Go for it.

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This page contains a single entry by PvM published on May 25, 2006 11:20 PM.

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