Now Behe puts D. James Kennedy at arms length

| 32 Comments

Darwin's Deadly Legacy, the program that Coral Ridge Ministries is airing this weekend that supposedly links Hitler to Darwin, is beginning to look like a public relations catastrophe for the organization. First Francis Collins repudiated the show, then the ADL put the hammer down, and now another of the "featured guests" is distancing himself from the content. Andrew Arensburger wrote to Michael Behe to find out about his contribution, and got this reply:

I'm "associated" with it only in the sense that a clip of my appearance on a TV show of Dr. Kennedy's from years ago apparently is used in the film. I didn't know this program was in the works, have had no conversations with anyone from Coral Ridge about it, and had no input into it.

This looks more and more like a pastiche of generic creationist interviews slapped together to prop up a weak thesis.

32 Comments

Behe’s distancing himself from the CRM show the way Sgt. Schultz distanced himself from the Nazis:

“I know nothink! NOTHINK!”

(Not a bad motto for the whole ID movement.)

Any idea why Coulter is no longer on the list?

As far as I can tell, she is still on the list. At least, she’s on the experts page, and appeared in the preview as of a few hours ago.

Behe who?

Scientifically he’s insignificant, or less.

He’s been disavowed by his own department.

He’s not published.

Who gives a rat’s ass what Behe thinks? He’s still giving lectures on mousetraps? Does he have a grant from Orkin, or whar?

Note I did not play the cheap Kitzmiller card where Behe advocated Astrology as a valid scientific pursuit.

So, in sympathy, please send all your used tin foil to Behe, Lehigh University, Nut House, Penn.

Behe is so well regarded by his colleagues in Department of Biological Science at Lehigh that they even make special mention of him on the home page of their web site (http://www.lehigh.edu/%7Einbios/new[…]volution.htm)

Here’s an excerpt:

“The department faculty, then, are unequivocal in their support of evolutionary theory, which has its roots in the seminal work of Charles Darwin and has been supported by findings accumulated over 140 years. The sole dissenter from this position, Prof. Michael Behe, is a well-known proponent of “intelligent design.” While we respect Prof. Behe’s right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific.”

Sounds like he has done a fine job influencing his immediate peers, no?

duh, it’s quote mining gone video. Nothing to see here people, move along! :-)

Ann is still listed on the website

What I don’t understand is why the decent people of this country don’t stand up and tell Ann Coulter ******censored******

What I don’t understand is why the decent people of this country don’t stand up and tell Ann Coulter ******censored******

oh i understand it alright. her book is a bestseller, remember?

politics will change, but the ever growing popularity of people like Limbaugh, Oreilly, coulter, and paris hilton tell me that there’s little room left for rationality round these here parts.

If Behe has ANY credibility and balls left he will also demand that he not appear on this show, just like Francis Collins did.

Any idea why Coulter is no longer on the list?

She’s conflicted.

She knows she hates evolution, but isn’t sure she’s ready to give up on the Nazis yet.…

J-Dog wrote

If Behe has ANY credibility and balls left he will also demand that he not appear on this show, just like Francis Collins did.

And if cows could fly we’d all have to carry cast-iron umbrellas.

RBH

Evidently, the program has already been released to Christian radio stations. Driving in today, I found Dr Kennedy’s “Darwin to Hitler” program on 2 stations. Dr Kennedy actually takes “Darwinism” past Hitler as he explains that Darwin led to situation ethics, teaching humans are just “naked apes”, mere animals. He then connects Darwinism to the Columbine shootings, quoting something about natural selection, supposedly from Klebold’s website. Coulter is talking on this program about the “fraud of fossils”. Dr Kennedy seems to think there were no massacres until Darwin appeared to disrupt the peaceful Christian world and his emphasis on man instead of God laid the groundwork for Naziism and is still at work in schools today as teens who are taught evolution either end up butchering their classmates or committing suicide. The amazing thing is that people really buy into this stuff, evidently. No wonder science education has been on the skids for so long.

Wait a minute!

Hitler really DID believe in the survival of the fittest, and promoted the Aryan race as superior to all others, much as the racist, sexist Victorian elitist believed the British Empire was the high point of civilization.

Based on the Behe quotes in this post it doesn’t sound like he is distancing himself at all from this video, it sounds more like he was just clairfying that he was not aware of his inclusion nor was he consulted. That is not the same as putting it at an “arms length” or suggesting he did not want to be included.

Seems awful DIish of PT to suggest Behe is distancing himself from it based on the quote you give. To say “I was not aware of it” is not the same as “I am opposed to it” or “I do not support it”. It seems overly optomistic of you to suggest Behe is somehow not pleased with the content of the video simply because he was not consulted or made aware.

Are there more Behe quotes on the subject that actually demonstrate he is/was opposed to being included?

Don’t get me wrong, I think Behe is a wingnut and he’d be wise to publicly run for cover concerning his inclusion in this video, but you have not demonstrated anything close to Behe actually having any objections to it so stating that he is putting it at an arms length seems like something the DI would do.

Chris

To JB. Yes much as the Romans with their empire believed that they were superior and had a right to enslave others and take their land, goods, etc. Much as non-native Americans believed that they were superior and had the right to supress, steal from, kill the natives (a process begun well before Darwin), much as Louis (St Louis) believed that Cathars should be killed en-masse, yep Charlie sure started something there (that last statement is to be treated as ironic BTW).

I went and read Andrew’s piece on this and I don’t see anything in the email sent to him from Behe that suggests he is distancing himself from this dihonest charade. He only states he was not consulted and was not informed of it. That is a far cry from putting something at an arms length. Someone should write Behe and specifically ask if he wishes to distance himself from it.

Again, and no offense, but based on Behe’s comments in the email, saying Behe does not approve or is putting it at an arms length or distancing himelf in any way smacks of a DI pr tactic.

Perhaps I am interpretin his email wrong? Either way, a clarification from Behe would be highly appropriate I think before PT claims him as one of our own (someone who thinks the video is a stinker).

Chris

JB said:

“Wait a minute!

Hitler really DID believe in the survival of the fittest, and promoted the Aryan race as superior to all others, much as the racist, sexist Victorian elitist believed the British Empire was the high point of civilization.”

(yawn). If we pretend you even know or care about what you’re talking about, doesn’t this statement mean we can blame Hitler for Hitler’s badness? You don’t have to answer, I don’t expect to hear anything educational from you.

Just curious though, are you the same ‘JB’ that was banned once from pandas HERE? :

http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives[…]_the_di.html

JB Wrote:

Wait a minute!

Please do. Wait, think through… THEN post.

JB Wrote:

Hitler really DID believe in the survival of the fittest, and promoted the Aryan race as superior to all others, much as the racist, sexist Victorian elitist believed the British Empire was the high point of civilization.

Did he? Then why did he engage in genocide?

See, if you believe another race is inferior and you believe in natural selection, you don’t have to go around killing them. They’ll go away on their own. That’s the selection part.

If you’re wiping out another group of people, it’s obvious you don’t think they’re going away on their own. If you did, you wouldn’t bother wiping them out. Therfore, Hitler must have either:

A) believed that they weren’t biologically inferior, or B) not believed in (or at least not understood) natural selection.

Well, we know for a fact A isn’t the case, so it must be B.

Natural selection tells us that gene types that aren’t going away aren’t inferior. This is a compelling case for the equality of the races, at least in terms of survival. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t believe in Natural selection. The very fact that they feel they must engage in artificial selection precludes it.

In short, if Hitler “believed” in evolution, it was only in the empty, mindless caraciture of it that creationists blither about, not the real thing. Another excellent argument for teaching it correctly in schools, huh?

Game, set, and match, Michael. Well done.

Natural selection tells us that gene types that aren’t going away aren’t inferior. This is a compelling case for the equality of the races, at least in terms of survival. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t believe in Natural selection. The very fact that they feel they must engage in artificial selection precludes it.

Not to mention that Hitler’s very idea of a “genetically pure master race” is, in biological terms, a monoculture – and any dolt who understands the most rudimentary basis of evolution knows that a monoculture is the WEAKEST form of biological population , and that successful evolution demands genetic VARIABILITY if a species is not to go extinct.

Wasn’t there anti-semitism long before Darwin ?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor[…]nti-Semitism

And why is it that Hitler never mentions “Darwin “ or “evolution” or “natural selection” anywhere in _Mein Kampf_?

And who the heck is this “God” and “Creator” that he keeps talking about?

So, let me get this straight.

ID has no science. ID has no scientists. ID has lost every court case. ID has been kicked out of school boards. ID is taught in no university on the Planet. ID has no research program anywhere. ID has no publications. ID has no current textbook since Casey says “Pandas” is old. ID has nothing to show.

OK, so ID is at rock bottom and it’s only hope is to grasp the coat tails of Nazis?

Does this mean that ID gave a pass to the Raeleans or are they next if the Nazis don’t pan out?

Dude Lenny wrote:

“Not to mention that Hitler’s very idea of a “genetically pure master race” is, in biological terms, a monoculture — and any dolt who understands the most rudimentary basis of evolution knows that a monoculture is the WEAKEST form of biological population , and that successful evolution demands genetic VARIABILITY if a species is not to go extinct.”

Exactly. Evolution requires genetic DIVERSITY, Eugenics was about genetic PURITY. Problem is, although this has been pointed out MANY times to fundies in the past (I’m convinced they ignore the links that people have provided for them), if I remember rightly, it was Darwin’s cousin who came up with the idea for eugenics, so as far as creationists are concerned, they can still blame Darwin for Hitler, even though Darwin rejected it.

if I remember rightly, it was Darwin’s cousin who came up with the idea for eugenics, so as far as creationists are concerned, they can still blame Darwin for Hitler, even though Darwin rejected it.

I think he also went around killing people named Eugene.

as he explains that Darwin led to situation ethics

So the ethical thing to do might vary, depending on the situation? Ooh, that’s scary. Hide the children.

She knows she hates evolution

From last weeks video on the ACLU (we are 6 days behind with this programme here in the UK):

“Evolution doesn’t just have gaps, the whole theory is a gap”

and also;

“The theory(evolution)has as much credibility as palm reading”

Anne Coulter,the Coral Ridge hour 26/8

This is on CBN right now in Washington D.C. I flipped past the show as a clip of Coulter, spewing some falsehood or other, was playing. I couldn’t actually stomach the program for more than a few seconds.

There should be a way to sue a program for being libelous to science.

I saw the program. More of the same nonsense we’ve been hearing for decades; no facts, no balance, plenty of unsupported assertions and fear-mongering. Plenty of holocaust imagery.

Darwin->Hitler Darwin->Columbine

Well, as I understand it, Darwin studied theology before he became a naturalist, so I guess we can apply the brilliant logical standards utilized in the program and say

Jesus->Darwin->Hitler

or whatever.

It’s amazing what you can prove when you don’t need to use evidence. Especially if the target audience has been naturally selected for centuries to unquestioningly accept the babblings of religious authority.

There was a post by Max Udargo over on Pharyngula that I just had to copy here in its entirety; apologies to Max:

Real True Stories for Christian Children: Adolf and The Jews

Once upon a time, in the enchanted land of Austria, in the magical city of Vienna, there lived a handsome young Christian man named Adolf Hitler, who dreamed of being a painter.

Not a painter like a house painter, but a painter of pictures. Adolf loved to paint pictures of trees and birds and butterflies. But although Adolf was artistic, he was a normal young Christian man who liked girls very much.

Because he was a good Christian, even though he liked girls very much, he was waiting until he found the right Christian girl and got married before he kissed a girl. But it had nothing to do with him being an artist. He liked girls very much.

Adolf was a happy young man and everybody loved him and he loved everybody back. His heart was full of Christian love toward all his neighbors. He especially loved his Jewish neighbors. The reason he had a special love for the Jews is because he grew up in the enchanted land of Austria, which was really part of the magical land of Germany, and all the Germans loved the Jews very much. The Germans loved the Jews because the Germans were all good Christians, and the German Christians had always loved the Jews so much.

Adolf especially loved the Jewish children. He would give them candy and paint their pictures and give them the pictures, or sometimes just hug them and tell them how much he loved them.

Adolf loved his Jewish doctor, and his Jewish banker, and his Jewish accountant, and his Jewish landlady, and all the Jews he knew. Sometimes, Adolf would think about how much he loved the Jews, and he would wish he knew more Jews, so that his heart could be filled with more love. And sometimes he would go looking for new Jews to meet and love, and so he had many, many Jewish friends, all of whom he loved very much.

One day, Adolf was walking to church, thinking about how much he loved the Jews, when he met a strange and ugly little man. The man was an atheist, which is somebody who hates Jesus, and the man gave Adolf a book. The book was called Origin of the Species, written by Charles Darwin. The atheist said that the book was scientific, and that Adolf should read this book instead of going to church. Adolf was such a nice young Christian man that he agreed to what the ugly little man asked, even though, in his heart, he really wanted to go to church and worship Jesus and listen to the priest talk about loving Jews. But to make the atheist happy, Adolf promised he would read the atheist’s book instead.

So Adolf sat under a tree and began to read the atheist’s book. As he read, his face became more and more sad, and his heart became heavier and heavier. By the time he had finished the book, Adolf knew that everything had changed, and that he would never be happy again. Because now, instead of loving the Jews, he had to kill them all.

It made him sad to think of killing all his Jewish friends, whom he loved so much, and it made him very sad to know he must kill all the Jewish children, instead of giving them candy and hugs. But although he hated the thought of killing all his Jewish friends and neighbors and the little Jewish children, now he had no choice. Because Charles Darwin’s book said that all the Jews must be killed, and Charles Darwin was a scientist. Although Adolf’s heart told him to love the Jews, science said they must all die. And science says that what science says is more important than what’s in your heart.

And so Adolf killed all the Jews.

The Moral of the Story: Always go to church. And if you read a book given to you by an atheist, you’ll have to kill everybody you love.

I decided to put that one as an addendum to my copy of Grim’s Fairy Tales.

Here’s a good review of the programme:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/op[…]istianit.htm

Hey how come you, or most of you are so mad at Michael Behe? Maybe its because he has raised a significant issue? I thought scientists were supposed to be open minded. All I am hearing is the type of condescension i’ve heard all my life, “how dare anyone ever, EVER question evolution!!” Zeik Heil Dudes!

About this Entry

This page contains a single entry by PZ Myers published on August 24, 2006 8:19 PM.

Birds of a Feather Flock Together was the previous entry in this blog.

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design Review: Introduction is the next entry in this blog.

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