More Zaniness From Poland

| 53 Comments

Thank God for Kent Hovind. Otherwise, the USA might have to relinquish its title as home of the world’s looniest creationist crazybags.

Neanderthal man walks among us, Poland’s far-right says

Poland’s far-right League of Polish Families (LPR), which is part of the coalition government, claims Darwin’s theory of evolution is all wrong, that humans lived alongside dinosaurs and that Neanderthal man is still among us.

Last week, Poland’s deputy education minister Miroslaw Orzechowski, a member of the LPR, bluntly rejected British naturalist Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection and his postulate that man is descended from apes. […]

This weekend, Orzechowski was given some high-level support when European lawmaker for the far-right party, Maciej Giertych – the father of LPR leader Roman Giertych – told a seminar that Neanderthal man still roams the planet, notably in the United States where examples can be spotted in a boxing ring. “A scientist showed me a picture of an American boxer. He had all the traits of Neanderthal man. These people are among us. They are part of the human race, probably more prevalent once upon a time, but who still exist,” Giertych, who has a doctorate in biology, told the seminar.

Taking up the mantra of creationists – who have a strong following among Christian fundamentalists in the United States, but whose theory that God created all living creatures at the same time has not won a huge following in Europe – Giertych also propounded that man and dinosaurs roamed the earth together.

“Research shows that dinosaurs and man were contemporaries. In every culture, there are indications that we remember (dinosaurs). The Scots have Loch Ness, we Poles have Wawel dragon (in Krakow), Marco Polo spoke of an imperial carriage in China which was pulled by a dragon,” Giertych said.

I… just don’t know what to say.

53 Comments

Re “I… just don’t know what to say.”

How about, “It’s so easy even a caveman could do it”?

(Sorry about that. :D )

I am speechless.

Does anyone have any idea what the popular response to all of this has been within Poland itself?

Seriously , we apologize — we had no idea you guys were still around.… .

Ignorance is bliss?

The statement about the American boxer is rather funny, since as far as I can tell most American boxers today are either Latino or African American. Neanderthals were not found in the new world or sub-Saharan Africa.

But maybe he was talking about the breed of dog.

The statement about the American boxer is rather funny, since as far as I can tell most American boxers today are either Latino or African American.

I think that’s kind of his point.

Maciej Giertych: A scientist showed me a picture of an American boxer. He had all the traits of Neanderthal man.

Isn’t this pure racism?

Isn’t this pure racism?

Gee, and I thought only Darwinists were racists . …

(snicker) (giggle)

“Research shows that dinosaurs and man were contemporaries. In every culture, there are indications that we remember (dinosaurs). The Scots have Loch Ness, we Poles have Wawel dragon (in Krakow), Marco Polo spoke of an imperial carriage in China which was pulled by a dragon,” Giertych said.

And other research shows that men are more likely to drink if they have already had a few…

Not really relevant to this specific article, but does everyone know that neither this one nor the recent article on Irreducible Complexity as an Evolutionary Prediction are showing up on the front page?

Please allow me to restore some bits that have unexplainably been deleted from Giertych’s statement:

“In every culture WHERE TOP QUALITY ALCOHOL IS PRODUCED, there are indications that we remember (dinosaurs). The Scots have SOME VERY GOOD WHISKIES AND Loch Ness, we Poles have THE BEST VODKAS IN THE WORLD AND Wawel dragon (in Krakow)…”

Is it racist to tell Polack jokes?

Everybody stay calm… This guy is a joke, no one treats him seriously out here. Polish scientific community has been bashing the guy mercilessly for the last 3 weeks. The guy is obviously a religious kook. Polish Catholic high-ranked priests who are also scientists also slammed Giertych.

Excuse my poor English

> Does anyone have any idea what the popular response to all of this has been within Poland itself?

Giertych was completely ridiculed by the media, and I judging by popular response to his statements it’s quite obvious that no one takes him seriously.

What’s really scary for me is that Giertych is a professor of biology (BA and MA at Oxford, PhD at University of Toronto), and an active member of Institute of Dendrology of the Polish Academy of Sciences, who only recently stopped teaching (forest genetics and population genetics )… Who knows what kind of idiotism he promoted in the classroom, under the “scientific banner”.

I tend to agree with the idea that the comments about boxers is likely to be an ethnic slur.

There’s another possible subtext, too: Look how advanced we Poles are; why, we don’t even have brutish men beating the shi’ite out of each other in boxing rings, unlike those uncultured, bullying Americans…

I hadn’t realized that the right-wing Christian fanatics had managed too make such deep inroads into Poland. I guess those missionary contributions are really rolling in.

Thanks, Mike, I was just about to ask how the RCC hierarchy (which explicitly supports evolution and opposes “creation science”) were responding to this.

So why is he (seemingly) making such a big splash? Is it because of his position, or because of mass-media hyping up manufactured “controversy” to boost ratings/readership?

Instead of looking for neanderthals in the boxing ring, how about looking at the next LPR party conference?

Steve Wrote:

Poland’s far-right League of Polish Families (LPR),which is part of the coalition government, claims Darwin’s theory of evolution is all wrong, that humans lived alongside dinosaurs and that Neanderthal man is still among us.

At least Answers in Genesis agree with him Steve:

Neanderthals from the Palestine area do not show the more stooped and massive features. The brain volume of Neanderthals is slightly larger than the average brain volume of people today, and Neanderthal peoples had a well-developed culture, art, and religion. Nowadays, evolutionists agree completely with creationists: Neanderthals were just plain people, no more different from people living today than one living nation is different from another. What were the “cave men”? Just people who lived in caves. (And at today’s housing prices, that may once again be a good idea!)

Gary Parker

Obviously AIG literature has been distributed widely in Poland

We really do not have a lot of room to make fun of Poland’s intellectual class. In South Carolina (which may be like Lower Slobbovia) has as its favorite to win Superintendent of Education, Karen Floyd, is unabashedly pro ID in the classroom. In an article for SC Parents Involved in Education, Ms Floyd, an attorney and businesswoman, states that evolution is taught as a “set of incontrovertible beliefs”. More and more scientists are poking around the foundations of evolutionary theory and irreducible complexity is just one issue causing evolutionists heartburn. As Floyd says of scientific theories, that students should learn to not accept them on “blind faith”. She cites a growing number of prominent scientists who now support ID and realize if “we exclude God from the classroom and lab, we limit our children’s scientific knowledge”. She blames Political Correctness for the spread of Evolution and sees home schooling as the answer to this problem in the public schools. (Panda’s Thumb has already featured this lady before but now it looks as if she is a sure winner) Poland is starting to look better and better.……

Well, obviously media love idiots and that’s why Giertych got so much exposure with his idiocies. He got ridiculed rather badly. Unfortunately, some TV stations made a mistake of actually inviting people from Polish Creation Society (which is doing a very poor job at spreading their message). It was strange to actually see and hear these guys talking on TV, you know. It’s one of those things that you think happen only in the US.

Catholic Church handled the whole thing well. Archbihops and other prominent church leaders said that anyone who claims that evolution and faith can not be reconciled is doing a harm to religion.

On a more personal level, I was surprised that there is some creationist sentiment lying dormnat in some (even educated) catholics and New Age people that I talked to.

This is a slightly different tack than simply saying that “Neanderthals were arthritic old people,” because it plays up on that pop culture demand for cryptobiology and the para-normal. How many people believe that the Loch Ness Monster is not only real, but a surviving marine reptile from the age of the dinosaurs? I think this claim is built to appeal to the same desire as the one that makes Loch Ness such a tourist attraction. And I’d like to see these caveman boxers! I’d imagine the thick, pronounced brow ridges would give them mean headbutts. Here’s a fun site that easily demonstrates the significant anatomical divergens of Neanderthals and modern human skulls. I’d like to hear Giertych explain them as long as it isn’t more of the same insipid crap AiG has been pushing.

I wandered over to uncommondissent, to see if Little Billy Dembski was trumpeting this latest proclamation from the Polish branch of his ID movement.

But I found something even better. The site has apparently been hacked!

http://www.uncommondescent.org/

My bad. Confused uncommondescent.org with uncommondescent.com.

for just a second there, my day brightened a bit.

Here’s a fun site that easily demonstrates the significant anatomical divergens of Neanderthals and modern human skulls. I’d like to hear Giertych explain them as long as it isn’t more of the same insipid crap AiG has been pushing.

Is the dna quite different as well? I remember reading somewhere about interbreeding hypotheses that were discredited by dna analysis.

A scientist showed me a picture of an American boxer. He had all the traits of Neanderthal man. These people are among us.…”

Uh, I don’t think that particular form of creationism is going to fly here in the U.S.

“Truth cannot contradict truth,” but creationism certainly contradicts creationism! And continues to do so…

[“Truth cannot contradict truth,” but creationism certainly contradicts creationism!]

That speaks a great deal about the so-called ‘truth’ of creationism.

I thought that this was an accepted scientific theory, that Neanderthal lineages were intermixed with “modern” human ones and that some people have Neanderthal blood in them.

How, exactly, would we go about proving that certain people have Neanderthal genes/traits, and certain others don’t?

Last I heard, gene sequencing demonstrated that modern H sapiens have virtually no H neandertalensis genes. …?

IIRC, there is a recent article in Nature documenting the efforts to sequence Neanderthal genomes.

that would be the thing to check out.

If you google on “sequencing neanderthal genome” you will find all the relevant articles and recent press releases on the status of the effort.

After discussing the “punishment” for an evangelist who obeyed the constitutional mandate of separation of church and state, let us now discuss the “punishment” of non-Bible believing pro-darwinian atheists who scoff at Dr. Hovind and the words of God.

Read the Book of Thessalonians:

8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

“Love me, or it’s everlasting punishment.”

Hmm.

Sounds like the sort of thing a crazed boyfriend says just before he slits his girlfriend’s throat in a wooded area.

an evangelist who obeyed the constitutional mandate of separation of church and state

BWA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That’s pretty funny.

Where Darwin Went Wrong

While he sailed around on that voyage, he brought with him some books to read. He brought his Bible (he had just gotten out of Bible College) and he brought with him this book, Principles of Geology. As Charles Darwin read this book, Principles of Geology, it absolutely changed his life forever. Later in life he said, “Lyell one of my favorite authors, has made a profound influence on my life.” As he read that book, Charles Darwin began to doubt the Bible and began to think the earth is millions and millions of years old. That’s the book that changed his life. Studying about Geology. And it’s amazing how many kids go through seventh or eighth grade in regular public school and they are taught in their earth science book that the earth is millions of years old and it destroys their faith in the Bible and they don’t even realize it. It undermines it. Cuts it right out from under them. That’s where it all starts. Later in life Darwin said, “Disbelief crept over me very slowly. I felt no distress.” By the way, he did not repent on his deathbed. His wife started the rumor that he did and that rumor still circulates today. But the best research says he did not repent on his deathbed. He remained loyal to his atheism right up to the end. But that is the book that changed Charles Darwin’s life.

*from kh*

You know, the Bible warned us that was going to happen. In II Peter chapter 3 it says, “Knowing this first, there shall come in the last days scoffers.” Did you know there are people that scoff at the Bible? I deal with them on a regular basis. I attract them like a magnet! Scoffers.

Why They Scoff

And it says they are going to walk after their own lusts. See, the reason they scoff at this Book is because of their sin, not because of their science. There is no scientific reason to reject the Bible. But they don’t like this Bible because it chaps their hide. Well, get some Vaseline, man, you are going to need it! Because we’re going to be judged according to this book—whether you like it or not.

What They Scoff

But the scoffers walk after their own lusts and they’re going to say, “where’s the promise of His coming, for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” [2 Peter 3:4] That’s an extremely important phrase. The scoffers are going to teach something in the last days that means ‘the way things are happening now is the way they’ve always been happening—long, slow, gradual processes called Uniformitarianism.’ The Bible warned us in 2 Peter that the scoffers are going to teach the way things are happening now is the way they’ve always been happening. The problem with that is, the scoffers are willingly ignorant. It says in the next verse, they are “willingly ignorant.” In the Greek, that means ‘dumb on purpose.’ The Creation. The scoffers are willingly ignorant of how God made the heavens (and heaven is plural. There is more than one heaven; we talk about that in videotape number one. There is more than one heaven.) They’re ignorant of how God made the heavens and the earth and how it was standing out of the water and in the water. The earth when God first made it was a lot different than it is today. It used to have water above the atmosphere and more water under the crust of the earth and we talk about all that on videotape number one and on videotape number six. But the scoffers are ignorant about the creation and they’re also ignorant of the flood. The Flood. The next verse tells us, “whereby the world then was, being overflowed with water perished.” The world was destroyed by a flood. You see, the scoffers don’t want to admit God created the world because that means God owns it. And that means there might be some rules. You know, like “thou shalt not…” And they don’t want those rules so they scoff at the Bible. Rather than change their lifestyle and get right with God, they try to eliminate the thing that’s bothering them, which is God’s word. They’re also ignorant of the flood. They don’t want to admit that there was a flood because if there was a worldwide flood, that means God has a right to judge His creation. And He does by the way; this is His world. He can wreck it if He wants.

You know, like “thou shalt not…”

Yeah, did you notice the rule at PT where you’re not supposed to be using several names? Or the rules of courtesy, where you don’t post a bunch of meaningless BS over and over again?

And they don’t want those rules so they scoff at the Bible.

No, it’s you guys who don’t believe in the rules. If indeed God set the world and the universe into action, it is we who pay heed to His rules, discovering how they work, and not denying that they exist and govern how things work.

You know, like the rules of inheritance and change, mutation. We don’t deny those rules, in fact we use them to understand biology, evolution, and genetic engineering.

What we have found is that IDists and creationists don’t believe in following the rules of inheritance and mutation in discussing life, rather they will attribute derived features to unseen and unevidenced events. Instead of believing that God set up rules to govern how life interacts with other life and with non-life, they claim that events occurred without rule or the governance of the laws and regularities that God (according to the claims of theists) had set up.

I know, it’s very shameful, claiming that life doesn’t follow rules. But you know those creationists and IDists, breaking the rules of science and of God’s universe is their raison d’etre, a very lawless and anti-God kind of life.

Rather than change their lifestyle and get right with God, they try to eliminate the thing that’s bothering them, which is God’s word.

Did not God speak the world into existence? Then why do you deny God’s word by not paying heed to His rules for how the world works? God must be very ashamed of you, both for flouting the law of the land through your violations of this forum, and because you deny the law-like regularities of life and of the cosmos. You destroy truth and morality by denying the rules of God’s universe.

Glen D http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm

bah, it’s not worth responding to in any meaningful way, glen.

it’s best interpreted, and responded to, as if they were just sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming LALALLALALA at the top of their voice.

And it’s amazing how many kids go through seventh or eighth grade in regular public school and they are taught in their earth science book that the earth is millions of years old and it destroys their faith in the Bible and they don’t even realize it.

But creationism isn’t about religion. No sirreee Bob. It’s just them lying atheist darwinists who say it is.

(snicker) (giggle)

I love fundies. I really do. Who else could shoot themselves in the head, publicly and repeatedly, and be PROUD of it, to boot.

Hey Glen, ever hear the expression “casting pearls before swine”?

(grin)

After discussing the “punishment” for an evangelist who obeyed the constitutional mandate of separation of church and state, let us now discuss the “punishment” of non-Bible believing pro-darwinian atheists who scoff at Dr. Hovind and the words of God.

This, I think, is the same lunatic who, along with his wife, has been sending me emails upbraiding me for my atheism. I had to get quite rude with them to convince them to stop.

I had to get quite rude with them to convince them to stop.

unsolicted emails are fodder for contacting the sender’s internet provider.

To evolutionists, fill your head with this med: Book of matthews, Chapter 23: 27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

TO ALL Kent Hovind BASHERS:

You’ll remember this final message on that final day when you’re facing God Almighty the Creator of man and the whole universe.

Book of John, chapter 8:

42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

TO ALL Kent Hovind BASHERS:

You’ll remember this final message on that final day when you’re facing God Almighty the Creator of man and the whole universe.

Book of John, chapter 8:

42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

To Ruth, Chris, and all the other names you use – a simple question:

Exodus 22:18 – “Suffer not a witch to live”.

Do you believe that witchcraft and supernatural witches exist?

If so, do you think they should be killed?

Also:

Do you agree with “Dr” Hovind that democracy is evil and anti-God?

Do you agree with “Dr” Hovind that the US government was behind both the Oklahoma City bombing and the 9-11 attacks?

Do you agree with “Dr” Hovind that AIDS and SARS are biological warfare agents?

I look forward to your not answering any of these simple questions. And I will repeat them, again and again and again and again, as many times as I need to, every time you post anything here, until you either answer them or run away.

I’m a very patient man.

This blog needs an emoticon for some snoring, preferably ruthlessly …

Henry

Emoticon for snoring? Might I suggest:

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I met these two brothers with unibrows on their heads, hair sprouting everywhere, their heads and bone structure underneath the facial skin seemed enormous - they talked exactly like beavis & butthead and they worked as pyro effects guys and they enjoyed lighting themselves on fire (yes, they put gel on first but you lose a little hair anyway) … until I met them, I thought … na’h … now, I’m not so sure :-)

I met these two brothers with unibrows on their heads, hair sprouting everywhere, their heads and bone structure underneath the facial skin seemed enormous - they talked exactly like beavis & butthead and they worked as pyro effects guys and they enjoyed lighting themselves on fire (yes, they put gel on first but you lose a little hair anyway) … until I met them, I thought … na’h … now, I’m not so sure :-)

As for the boxer, have you seen the current (Russian) heavyweight champ …

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10509688/ http://mosnews.com/news/2005/12/23/[…]evbelt.shtml

Now Turkey’s Minister of Education is reportedly advocating incorporation of Intelligent Design Theory into that country’s biology textbooks. See http://curricublog.org/2006/10/31/i[…]land-turkey/

Meanwhile, Scott Minnich gave a speech last week here at the University of Delaware in favor of Intelligent Design. Minnich was a witness favoring the non-naturalistic definition of science for the Kansas science standards. At Delaware he bemoaned the recent tide against ID: “For the first time in my academic career I feel like quitting,” he said. See http://curricublog.org/2006/10/31/ud-id/

Re “Now Turkey’s Minister of Education is reportedly advocating incorporation of Intelligent Design Theory into that country’s biology textbooks.”

Wonder what they’re going to put on the rest of the page that contains the ID material? ;)

Henry

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This page contains a single entry by Steve Reuland published on October 23, 2006 4:26 PM.

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