Allah vs evolution

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Joseph Meert, a professor of Hydrocephalic Earth Studies and Structure at Bayou University in Gainesville, Florida (I guess in plain English it has something to do with geology) reports on an appearance there of an Islamic advocate of creationism who explained to the audience of a few tens of students that evolution is impossible because fish is very different from land walking animals. Dr. Meert’s post can be seen here.

25 Comments

hydrocephalic earth studies…

is that what happens to a geologist after being exposed to “flood” geology?

What students learn about evolution in books is “fake” and has no scientific value, a Turkish neurosurgeon said to about 50 students Tuesday.

Human life is a result of Allah, not evolution, said Dr. Oktar Babuna, a controversial Muslim speaker.

hmm, what are the probabilities that TWO neurosurgeons (the other being Michael Egnor - http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives[…]esponds.html), from opposite sides of the globe and two supposedly different relgious sects end up posting the same drivel witin days of each other.

I smell the familiar stink of the DI behind these two supposedly unrelated events.

big tent, indeed.

From the By Bayou University home page:

BY BAYOU UNIVERSITY Your Diploma Mill on the Web

Our mission statement We at By Bayou University strive to give our custom students the highest quality diploma at a reasonable price, while maintaining a constant inflow of beer money. The quality of our diplomas meets or exceeds that of diploma mills operating out of the basements of churches anywhere. We require no statement of faith or oaths of fidelity. While we offer degrees at the Associate, Bachelor and Master level, you may skip these and go directly to the Doctorate.

The faculty:

Professor of Pseudo-Pseudogenetics Dr. Mockingbird1 Dr.Psi2Genetics Professor of Firmament Fermentation Fizicks Dr. Orion Dr.Cre.Sci.Edu. Professor of Hydrocephalic Earth Studies and Structure Dr. Joe Meert Dr.Cre.Sci.Edu. Professor of Scientific Autorelational Urban Creationary Engineering Dr. Tim Thompson Dr.Cre.Sci.Edu. Professor of Metaphysical Presuppositionalism Dr. D.E. Craig Dr. Obfus.Neol. Professor of Forensic Theology Dr. Pat Parson Dr.Cre.Sci.Edu. Professor of Chromosomal Transmogrification Dr. Robert Williams Dr. Chr.Trans. Professor of Scientific Recreation Dr. Rob Miles Dr.Sci.Recr. Professor of Cetacean Bioacoustics Dr. Wesley Elsberry Dr.Cet.Bioac. Professor of Searchology Dr. Gary Harris Dr. Srch.

Sigh, that’s my alma mater. University of Florida that is. I have no idea what By Bayou University is. I was happy to at least read the following bits from the article in the Alligator:

“After the speech, students gathered in groups of five or six, and many passionately refuted Babuna’s claims. Others rushed to ask Babuna questions and challenge his arguments.”

“Vice President of Islam on Campus Yaser Ali said his organization brought Babuna to encourage debate and provide a different perspective on the issue.

‘These views aren’t necessarily the views of Islam on Campus,’ he said.”

Go Gators!

Maybe PT should invite Taner Edis for a longer review on Islam and science

Joe Meert is a christian geologist who does his best to debunk YEC. he accepts the compatibilty of science and religion. You can check out some of his postings at christianforums.com -one of the best “theistic” evolution forums i know of (besides PT and associated places)

I appreciate that Dr. Meert has listed his degree from and faculty position at By Bayou U in his personal information. However, the reader made a mistake in assuming that BBU is in Gainesville, FL. BBU is just outside of Houston, TX. White Oak Bayou is the bayou that By Bayou U is by. I’m not even sure that there are any bayous in Gainesville.

Anyway, I am the President, Dean, and Registrar of said University. It is, of course, a virtual university, with no campus, no buildings, and no classes.

Thanks, Joe, for the mention. I guess I’ll have go update the site and go back into the business of issuing diplomas.

Jokes aside, in fact Dr. Joseph Meert is a professor of geology at the University of Florida.

STJ: If the DI are getting involved in Islamist creationism, then that would represent a new low for them – they’re not just liars and fools, they’re openly using threats and violence to intimidate real scientists and stifle opposing views. Yes, the Christianists are doing that too, but the Islamists are more blatant about it, and less ashamed.

I always thought Bayou University was LSU’s nickname.

Another Gator alum.

Look at all the posibilities of this “factory” of widgets RSS “beon” presents you:

http://factory.beon4u.com/factory.aspx

It´s great, isn´t it?

sparc: “Maybe PT should invite Taner Edis for a longer review on Islam and science.”

Not a bad idea, one of these days. Meanwhile, my new book An Illusion of Harmony: Science and Religion in Islam is just out. Read it; it contains quite a lot about all forms of Muslim creationism, ID, and responses to evolution in general…

Edis: Have you had any direct experience with Muslim creationists, such as Harun Yahya (or whatever his real name is)? Is their campaign of intimidation as bad as the Wikipedia article on Yahya indicates?

There is some stuff on Harun Yahya at TalkReason - here and here, the first one by Taner Edis and the second by Michael Hopkins.

Hmmm. If the DI is truly hookin’ up with vahlence-spoutin’ MidEast creationists, it maht be that we all should jest turn the DImbulbs in as terroristas…non, mon cher?

Which jest maht suhve thet Dembski feller raht for one a his “street theatah” stunts a while back, when he tried ta pull somethin similah…

Thanks, Mark. The first link doesn’t work, but the second is quite interesting. This Yahya guy looks flakier (and more dangerous) every time I look.

STJ: If the DI are getting involved in Islamist creationism, then that would represent a new low for them — they’re not just liars and fools, they’re openly using threats and violence to intimidate real scientists and stifle opposing views. Yes, the Christianists are doing that too, but the Islamists are more blatant about it, and less ashamed.

hmm, wasn’t Harun Yahya invited to participate in the Kansas Kangaroo Kourt Komedy as well?

ahh, no, more specifically, that was actually Mustafa Akyol, but it’s like mistaking phillip johnson for casey luskin (same breed, same organization).

http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives[…]he_musl.html

Dr. Oktar Babuna, not Joseph Meert, spoke at the University of Florida (in Gainesville), not “Bayou University” which I am pretty sure is the nickname for LSU (in Batton Rouge).

According to the school newspaper, the Alligator, the creationism/ID message was not specifically expected by the group who invited him, Islam on Campus, nor was it approved of by much of the small audience.

You can’t criticize the university for this. In fact, they recently showed “Flock of Dodos” on campus. And I insist on taking a look at student views of religion in the newspaper’s opinion section from Feb. 7th, 9th, and 12th at www.alligator.org

Thanks, Raging Bee, for pointing to the wrong link to Taner’s post. It is fixed now.

I am the original author of the theory called Presuppositional Creationism. I wrote and published the theory in 1999 on-line, and it was posted for two years. I have not finished refining the theory so I did not publish in print form, other than to have the original manuscript reviewed by some professors of science and theology. Christianity was not ready for a presuppositional system of creationism at that time, and I have waited 8 years for them to get ready. Unfortunately, the brand of presuppositionalism they are using (Van Tillianism) can’t be used to solve the issue, it makes the problem worse, they don’t know what they are doing, just like they didn’t know what they were doing wwhen they were using strong evidentialism either. They are theological morons, to be blunt.

Andrew Sandlin’s work came out in 2001, and while I have no proof he was aware of my thesis, the title has been ripped off from me in my view and is now being used by the likes of Ken Ham who is claiming to have been presuppositional from birth, which is laughable. Chalcedon is now using the term as well. so are others all over the weeb, claiming they have always been PC, when they in fact were the worst violators of strong evidentialism.

When I saw this qouted on your site:

“Professor of Metaphysical Presuppositionalism Dr. D.E. Craig”

having been lifted from that bastion of the higher education of obtusesiosity, By Bayou U. website, I couldn’t believe it.

Now sure, there might be some other D.E. Craig with a PHD in “metaphysical presuppositionalism.” It’s possible.

It’s also possible that By Bayou U. actually exists as a legitimate educational institution.

Nah.

Is there a lawyer in the house that can advise me on this, that is my options for suing these bastards? (I’m serious)

Please contact me at [Enable javascript to see this email address.]

Whoops, sorry guys, I have been away from the debate too long, 8 years, and now I remember what By Bayou U. is. I should be flattered instead of outraged, sorry.

After everybody under the sun in Christianity rejected me, I dropped out of the world, literally. I have only recently begun to get back into things.

Thanks for the mention. BTW, since I published online in 1999 and every Christian on the planet said that I was a heretic, my theory was taught as one of the alternate models of creationism at some universities, including this one

http://people.cedarville.edu/Employ[…]ob/index.htm

Then, Andrew Sandlin published his work, titled “Presuppositional Creationism” (what a coincidence, huh?) in 2001.

Then Ken Ham began lying and saying he had been presuppositional from birth in 2005-06.

Then Mark Rushdoony declared Chalcedon in favor of a “presuppositional creationism” in 2006 -07.

That’s about 1/3 of modern christian creationism right there, probably enveloping about 30 million people, just as I predicted.

Their brand of PC can’t work thogh, the really funny thing is they are just going to make their position WORSE, not better.

Without me, they will NEVER get it right, and I ain’t just whistling dixie either.

If any of you can help me publish out there, I need a co-author and publishing contacts. My theory solves the school origins controversy. You want Christians to stop fighting evolution and insisting on creationism taught in public schools? Support me and help me get the theory, the right theory, out there.

[Enable javascript to see this email address.] is my contact address.

A Scientist works on Science.

A Creationist Works on Creation?

A Creationist BELIEVES IN Creation! That’s more like it!

And they want your kids to believe in it too so they will be good little Cultie’s and the church can replenish the ranks. Religion is DANGEROUS, [ALL OF THEM]

THE CREATIONIST HAVE TO SAY THAT THE WORLD IS 6010 YEARS OLD OR THEY WOULD HAVE TO EXPLAIN WAY GOD JUST SUDDENLY SHOWED UP OVER 1, 2, 300’000 YEARS OF HUMAN DEVELOPMENT

CREATIONIST ARE LIKE THE HELPER OF THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTIAN KICKING TOTO AND PULLING THE CURTAIN BACK, KNOWING THERE IS A COMPARTMINTAL ISUE IS SIDE THIER MIND. SOME WIZZERED! WE JUST NEED (1) THING THAT SAYS GOD DID IT AND THE HOLE WORLD WOULD CHANGE, COME ON GOD, GIVE US A SIGN BUT HE DESIDED TO MAKE IT A BIG GAME OF FAITH HE’S NOT A WIZZERED, HE’S A REF. AND THE BIG GAME IS WAR AND POWER. IT’S NOT JUST SCIENCE THAT MAKES (ALL) RELIGION LOOK MAN MADE IT’S THE RELIGION’S THAT DO IT ALL ALONE. 2’000, 3’000 YEARS AGO, MATH WAS THE SCIENCE THAT CONFERMED GODS EXISTAINCE TRIG. VS CREATION

If you are thin enough in understanding of basic science to fail the simple test of distingiushing a “theory” from an “idea”, “proposition”, or “hypothosis”, I shudder to imagine how your work must read. No thanks.

About this Entry

This page contains a single entry by Mark Perakh published on February 28, 2007 6:57 PM.

Christopher Hitchens on Thomas Jefferson and Intelligent Design was the previous entry in this blog.

The IDers Who Went Up a Molehill and Came Down a Mountain is the next entry in this blog.

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