The Hovind Saga Continues

| 102 Comments

This was recently posted on CSEblogs.com – the blogs of Creation Science Evangelism, i.e. Kent Hovind’s ministry. It comes from Paul Abramson who is a longtime supporter and associate of Hovind. I will post it without further commentary, since it is pretty shocking by itself. We don’t know anything more about it than this. It could indicate anything from Hovind committing some sort of serious infraction of prison rules, all the way down to a Hovind fan’s histrionic misinterpretation of some routine event such as a prison transfer. It seems a little hard for me to believe that Hovind would do something worthy of solitary, so who knows.

Anyway, here it is… (from the comments section)

DR. HOVIND - was just moved to a different federal facility.

He is now in solitary confinement for 23 1/2 hours per day, in a small cell. He sleeps (at this time) on the concrete floor. A guard has provided him with part of a “Good News for Modern Man” Bible. He has nothing else, as far as we know. There are conflicting reports from the new facility on whether or not he can receive visitors. He has had a very limited “approved visitors” list up until now.

His new address:

Kent Hovind #06452-017 FCI Marianna PO Box 7007 Marianna, FL. 32447 USA

=====

Letters and postcards can be sent. No food; no hardbound books; no CDs or DVDs; do not put “Dr.” in front of his name. All mail is opened and checked in front of guards.

Paul Abramson

P.S. The “May 7th post from Brother Hovind above - was actually written by him over one week ago, from before he was suddenly moved to the new location and put into solitary confinement a few days ago. …

102 Comments

Sounds like he’s getting the Paris Hilton treatment.

do not put “Dr.” in front of his name. LOL

And those commenters are frightening people. The “End Times” folks give me the heebie-jeebies.

Unbelievably, I agree with Hovind’s statements about a lot of non-violent criminals. Of course, he had to become one before he cared about them. I never thought a creationist nut like Hovind would say something more complex than a description of the weather that I could agree with. (For the record, I have a very “tough” attitude toward violent crime, theft, and fraud.)

Hovind deserves every minute of a stiff sentence for tax evasion, in a real facility, but there’s no reason he or any other prisoner should be subjected to excessive or inhumane treatment - in the unlikely event that that is actually happening.

No-one should be made to sleep on a concrete floor, obviously. Neither is it the state’s business if someone calls him “doctor”, laughable as that may be - it’s not a legally restricted term. (The list of stuff he can’t receive is just standard, of course - a DVD can be broken and used to stab somebody, food is a pain to screen, and so on.)

It’s hard to see how a wimpy tax evader like Hovind could deserve lockdown, but we don’t know the details, nor whether this is true.

Which “part” of the Bible are they letting him have? Hopefully the more peaceful and forgiving later part. Given some of the more rancid stuff in the Old Testament, I can see why the guards wouldn’t want #06452-017 bringing more violent ideas to a prison population not known for civility.

“He is now in solitary confinement for 23 1/2 hours per day, in a small cell.”

This should give him plenty of time to think about the errors of his ways and the people who he had cheated. Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say. He is getting everything he deserves.

PZ has more commentary. There is an interesting split – some people suspect this may be a case of inappropriate action on the part of the federal prisons. I want to emphasize again that we don’t really know anything beyond the fact that a CSE blogger is claiming Hovind is in solitary confinement. It could be that Hovind did something that brought this on, it could be that he is not actually in solitary at all and was just in a temporary transfer cell or something and then jumped to the wrong conclusion…which he has been known to do before.

Solitary confinement is pretty hard. I can’t imagine what he could have done to deserve that (if this is true).

I hope no one here takes delight in this.

“Remember the nails” Priceless.

consider the source, what is more likely: 1) Hovind did something so bad that they put him in solitary

2) he’s not/never was in solitary and Abramson’s comments are fuel for the “Hovind is a martyr (for his christian beliefs)” fire- a.k.a. Abramson is lying

He is getting everything he deserves.

For being a crackpot,telling lies, and for not paying his taxes ??? The whole thing seems somewhat harsh, in my opinion, but then, maybe he only has himself to blame for his predicament.

A guard has provided him with part of a “Good News for Modern Man”

As far as I know this is only a paraphrase and not a translation. Since fundies generally seem to regard the AV or King James version as the only true bible I’m not sure how he would react at receiving this.

The “End Times” folks give me the heebie-jeebies.

I’ve just discovered this nutcase on shortwave:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Stair

He makes Hovind seem quite sane in comparison ! For those in the UK who have access to a shortwave radio, have a listen on 6110 khz between 2pm and 4 pm and you’ll see what I mean !

As someone who works with inmates on a voluntary basis, it sounds to me like he got tossed in “the hole”. That’s where inmates get sent when they violate rules or dis the C.O.’s. However, even in the hole inmates are given beds. And as far as I know, they get one hour a day for recreation (not thirty minutes).

Also, its not at all unusual for inmates who are being transferred into a new facility to be placed temporarily in solitary confinement.

In the end, my guess is that this report exaggerates Hovind’s actual circumstances.

Comment #174236

Posted by harold on May 8, 2007 2:12 PM (e)

It’s hard to see how a wimpy tax evader like Hovind could deserve lockdown, but we don’t know the details, nor whether this is true.

Assuming that it’s true, it’s because Hovind constantly violated prison rules and got himself in a bit of trouble. Otherwise he’d have been in a place like Martha Stewart or Leona Helmsley.

I don’t think the Feds keep their prisoners in the same locals they lived in before conviction. Also, to move a prisoner convicted of a white collar type crime from a minimum security facility to a medium security one the prisoner would have had to commit a number of offences, a fairly serious single one, or be considered a security/escape risk. Minimum security prisons have their own punishment system and prisoners wouldn’t be moved to correct a minor disciplinary problem.

Hovind’s move from one facility to another may be nothing more than preparation for his being moved to a third, outside the Florida panhandle area. Alternatively, posting comments about the prison to an Internet blog might have got him categorized as a security/escape risk.

moses Wrote:

Otherwise he’d have been in a place like Martha Stewart or Leona Helmsley.

For anyone else who reads that the wrong way: end visual imagery!

Knowing Hovinds past, He himself is probably responsible for his current solitary confidement. He has repeated broken rules and the cried foul when someone holds him accountable.

Any news on when his wife/rest of the family will be joining him in jail?

Also, its not at all unusual for inmates who are being transferred into a new facility to be placed temporarily in solitary confinement.

is it also possible he was put in solitary for his own protection?

I mean, I can easily envision Hovind pissing half the cell block off enough to warrant it.

wouldn’t that be delicious irony? solitary for his own protection becomes “he’s a victim of authoritah” in the hands of his psychophants.

Update. Well, no one guessed this, exactly, but someone should have. FWIW:

=== UPDATE ON DR. HOVIND ===

Jesus almost did not mention the foreign Roman occupiers of Israel, when He walked among us about 2,000 years ago.

False religious teachers though, who wanted most the respect of men, they were a different matter. Many times Christ spoke strongly against their sort. (See Matthew 23.)

Many modern prison chaplains are Christians. I would expect that most of them are Christians, since it can be a thankless ministry. But it stands to reason that some of them are not. And they, like the Pharisees before them, can’t stand the Gospel message and those who would spread it. It cuts in on their turf.

Brother Hovind got in trouble with the chaplain in the federal prison where he was previously held. The chaplain actually tried to get Dr. Hovind in trouble on more than one occasion. And the chaplain told him to stop holding Bible studies. The chaplain called them “unauthorized meetings.” Dr. Hovind was following the rules that no more than 5 men could meet together. He kept holding the Bible studies (only with 3-4 others at a time) and witnessing to his fellow inmates whenever he could. And just like before, in the county jail, men were responding to the Word! They were coming to know Christ as their Savior and Lord.

Suddenly last week Dr. Hovind was shipped out of that institution and sent to another, where he is now in a bare cell, isolated in solitary confinement, as was learned and reported yesterday. …

Paul Abramson Editor of www.cseblogs.com

I doubt very much it is really as simple as this, but it would not be surprising if Hovind started picking fights over religion…

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The guy operates above the law as if he were god himself.

Give unto Kent what is Caesars.

He has the perfect excuse, blaming his whole act on ‘god’.

I feel sorry for the guards who will still need to interact with him.

Maybe he could do the right thing and go on a hunger strike for evangelical tax evasion, and not take another bite until the govt. gives in.

The “End Times” folks give me the heebie-jeebies.

I’ve just discovered this nutcase on shortwave:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Stair

He makes Hovind seem quite sane in comparison ! For those in the UK who have access to a shortwave radio, have a listen on 6110 khz between 2pm and 4 pm and you’ll see what I mean !

Sorry, but you don’t have the right person. In kindness, EndTimes.

I wonder if he was trying to convert fellow inmates to his, um, beliefs, and either a) it didn’t take, or b) it took well enough and the guards saw him as a subversive threat. Either one might land him in isolation, or require him to change prisons.

Most likely though, I would guess he’s lying, or at best, exaggerating his situation. He does seem to live in his own world.

Doug S

During the day I work with homeowners and real estate people and I get the greatest kick out of it. My off hours are spent alone, mostly, and I get the biggest kick out of it. Solitary? I don’t think that it’s so bad. (Subjective opinion only, here.) I’d bet that I could do a year and emerge with a smile. Possibly a mad leer but I would place long odds against it. See, the thing is, there is so much to do when you have an unbroken sequence of hours, days, years. Ken’ problem, or the problem misapprehended by his supporters, is that he has no experience acting alone, motivated solely by his own abilities and curiosity. He can’t do things without the involvement (read: cheer leading) of the faithful. With them he is whole; without them, hollow, since there is so little there to begin with.

I would guess that Ken rarely spent much time without the company of acolytes and fellow godbotherers and other hangers on. The fact that he feels badly (or that others feel so on his behalf) is probably related to the fact that for a long time Ken has has an available and enthusiastic audience and now he has but other criminals for company. So what? He made his bed and he will sleep in it, on the floor or elevated a foot and a half above it. In either case he will have a mattress, paid for by you and I, and a pillow. Both are indeed cruel imitations of what he is used to but he most assuredly does not sleep on concrete. (Full disclosure: I have been to jail.)

Can we expect the purpose of imprisonment, rehabilitation that is, to be manifest in Ken’s case? I doubt it, and am not alone in that doubt. But us doubters are outnumbered because of the emotional appeal of a “good man, only trying to save precious souls, being brought low for nothing more than a mere oversight.” I think we have heard this tune before. It’s called “What are you going to say when you stand before the throne?”

Piss, I say.

I don’t know about the wrong End Times, but the right Endtimes commenting on CSE and apparently now here is evidently well separated from reality. Heebie-jeebies is a fair description.

Mr. Hovind is a narcissist who may never understand that the world and every thing in it was not put here for his sole benefit. Just imagine the satisfaction of being the prison official who got to put a god bothering evangelist in solitary for proselytising against the rules. If that’s what happened.

By the way, each and every nonbeliever here and on Pharyngula have now had our very own strawmen erected for us by commenters over at CSE. Fortunately(?) our rude and childish behaviour is not enough to prevent them from loving us all.

Unfortunately our decision to separate ourselves from Himself means we will never be able to cuddle close to Him like they will. Upon inspection, there is one thing right about that. Indeed we won’t meet Himself.

You have to read between the lines to understand what the reality deniers are saying.

Gene: Some Christians have REALLY suffered, in atheist sponsored Gulags, “re-education” centers, and brainwashing camps.

This is tough to translate from Delusional to English. I think he means many states used to mandate that parents send their kids to school. Alternatively, he might mean that if you never pay your taxes, obstruct justice, and lie a lot, you get sent to jail.

Gene: Its starting.

???I think he means his cultist’s attempt to destroy the US democracy and usher in a new dark ages didn’t work. Too bad. The USA citizens identify themselves as christian 82% of the time. Not exactly a persecuted minority here.

Hovind undoubtedly did something to deserve his upgrade. He is undoubtedly spinning it as religious persecution. Look at his history of antisocial behavior and lack of remorse.

For being a crackpot,telling lies, and for not paying his taxes ??? The whole thing seems somewhat harsh, in my opinion…

If you think that’s harsh, just ask yourself how #06452-017 would have been treated had he been a black man from a high-crime area, with no connection to any high-profile right-wing church.

(Given what I’ve heard of prison life, the solitary confinement, if indeed he’s in solitary, might be for #06452-017’s own protection.)

Nick Wrote:

Update. Well, no one guessed this, exactly, but someone should have. FWIW:

On the email list, I speculated that it was because of a turf war between Hovind and the chaplain.

I missed that before, thanks Reed.

Reed is also offering to sell lotto numbers..

Comment #174265 Posted by Gene on May 8, 2007 6:07 PM (e)

>Some Christians have REALLY suffered, in atheist sponsored Gulags, “re-education” centers, and brainwashing camps.

Right, Gene (is SImmons your last name, BTW?…) !!!

In my neighborhood there are so many of the atheist-sponsored Gulags, like the “First Baptist” one block over on main street, and the “True Bible Church” near the intersection with Eden Blvd. I mean, there is so much “re-education” going on in my neighborhood I sometimes wonder if my own brain is getting washed!

Everywhere I turn, those damn atheists are torturing Christians.…Why heck Gene.…you can’t even run for President of the good ‘ole US of A if you are a Christian! Admitting you are a Christian is tantamount to political suicide! You’ll never get elected to public office if you are a Christian. In fact. you’ll get the orange jumpsuit treatment in one of those atheist sponsored Gulags. You know.….waterboarding for Satan? Gene…do you hear me? No more Sunday school, that’s for sure. You have to be an atheist to get elected in this God-dammed non-Christian nation.

>Its starting.

I know.…the spiders crawling up your arm again.….the hideous pink elephant in the corner of the room.….threatening.….reading the “Origin of Species”.…..damn, Gene.….I honestly don’t know how you can maintain your sanity, given the circumstances. Honestly, I don’t.

Solitary confinement is pretty hard. I can’t imagine what he could have done to deserve that (if this is true).

I hope no one here takes delight in this.

Some evolutionist warden probably wanted to put the screws to a man who preached the gospel without compromise or shame. You can bet most of the evolutionists here are taking much delight in this!

Hovind is a whining wimp.

Some Christians have REALLY suffered, in atheist sponsored Gulags, “re-education” centers, and brainwashing camps.

Hell, Sam Harris in The End of Faith says that it is ethical to KILL people for BELIEFS if the BELIEFS are judged dangerous enough.

BELIEFS, not just actions.

Its starting.

The official propaganda line spouted by the evolutionists who ran those gulags was not that they were thrown there for their beliefs, but rather they committed some crime against the State. This is exactly what is going on with Hovind. Believe me, if the IRS looked hard enough they could find some anomaly with anybody’s tax return. Brave Christians who challenge the teachings of evolutionism will increasingly find themselves guilty of tax-related offenses. You could be next.

Does it strike anyone odd, besides me, that we–who supposedly support rationalism–have written lines and lines and lines of opinions here without a shred of evidence that what started it all, Abramson’s note, has any basis whatsoever in truth?

I find it kinda spooky that folks here are willing to gather around and metaphorically start kicking the guy (a major weirdo and convicted criminal, to be sure) because someone metaphorically yelled, “Go get him!”

Do I/we dislike his ilk? Damn straight! Why? Because he thinks things, and says things, and supports things, and does things without a shred of evidence.

Oops.

Is there any outside verification that Hovind is actually in solitary? Nine-will-get-you-ten that these are the fundies making up stories to set Kent up as a martyr and how Xians are persecuted by the evil sec-u-larists.

#06452-017 spanked his son for being scared of a dental operation? And then bragged about it afterword? He’s just as lame a father as he is a Christian – and for the same reason: he has nothing positive to offer, even to his own kin; only negativity, hatred, and threats.

I was scared when I had to have teeth pulled too; but no one had to hold me down or spank me – my dad explained what had to be done, said I’d be avoiding more pain in the long run, and assured me I’d get through it and live. Also, a nurse gave me a shot of something to calm me down before they started sticking needles in my mouth.

This may not be “abuse” in the strict legal sense, but it certainly is pathetic and inexcusable. And it doesn’t give “Christian parenting principles” a good name either.

Anti Atheist: you can trash Dawkins and Harris all you want, but that really says nothing about atheists in general: large numbers of atheists have already distanced themselves from those two, for precisely the reasons you cited. Only a fool – or a lying propagandist like you – would pretend they represent the mainstream of atheist thought.

Also, please remember all the hateful, intolerant loonies who have been making YOUR side look like idiots for around two thousand years and counting. Perhaps you should clarify your position on them before you start preaching about the loonies on the other side.

#06452-017 wrote:

He was screaming and hollering and yelling. Well, the doctor called the nurse, and the nurse sat on him, the doctor sat on him, and I sat on him. We tried to hold him still, but we couldnt hold him still enough for that kind of operation…

So THREE ADULTS weren’t strong enough to hold down a CHILD who was young enough to be spanked on his father’s lap? Sounds like that kid had a LOT of fear. Wonder where all that fear came from…somewhere in his immediate family, perhaps? Just sayin’…

The Anti Atheist Wrote:

Why do I call it CommieAtheism as opposed to simply, Communism?

Because Communism does NOT have to be atheistic!

Correct. Nor does atheism have to be oppressive, much less mass-murderous.

As Raging Bee would tell you (and I now see has told you), Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, etc. are not a kind of atheist clergy. They are popular authors with whose various positions some agree and others don’t. However, a common theme in their writings - with which I’d say most atheists agree - is that the use of religion to facilitate or excuse abuse of authority, discrimination, unfair legal protection or social status, etc. is wrong. Despite its widespread acceptance and the widespread reluctance to say so, it is as unjustifiable a motivation for these unethical behaviors as any other motivation.

If this “flavor” of atheist gained political power in, say, the United States, would we see legislative attempts to remove the tax-exempt status of many religious activities? Most likely. Would we see religious people made an underclass or outright rounded up and gassed? Only in certain people’s martyr-complex-induced fantasies.

For the matter, my personal opinion of christianity is that it’s so widespread because it’s predatory.

agree 100%.

You can bet most of the evolutionists here are taking much delight in this!

umm , you do realize that hovind was ignorant and/or lying about evolution and all of that other sciency type stuff ..we “evolutionists” never paid much attention to him (well,other than calling him a liar)

and of course hovind went to jail because of stuff that he actually did

delight that a con man and liar took a hard fall .….actually it’s more like relief

funny how all you liberals on this site love to hear that he is being “tortured” for his supposed crime but you all cry to stop the torture of terrorists in american prisons who have actually killed women and children and want to kill every liberal as well (unless you convert of course). shame on letting your true anti Christian colors show on your liberal sites. you guys just keep proving the Bible prophecies right more and more.

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Gee Stone, are you OK? I mean, your comment doesn’t sound…right. “All you liberals”? Ummmm, what does being “liberal” or “conservative” have to do with this? Hovind is in prison because he committed serious crimes. He committed those crimes knowing that they were crimes, and showed no remorse. His whole attitude was un-American, since he viewed the United States as his enemy. In spite of that attitude, he was tried and found guilty by the American justice system, which provided him every opportunity to defend himself and appeal the decision. Are you so anti-American as to think that our great nation does not provide the best justice system in the world? Do you hate our government and our country? As for torture – it’s illegal. Sorry, but it is. In fact, it is unconstitutional. Period. Written on the document and you can go see it for yourself in DC. Do you have any evidence that anyone on this site endorses terrorism or supports letting terrorists go? Terrorists who kill people deserve to be tried and punished in the same way that Hovind was – following the laws. And following our great constitution, they deserve representation, a trial by jury, and all the rights and privileges that any of us deserve to ensure that we get a fair trial. Or is it that you feel somehow that Jesus would want you to form a lynch mob, chain ‘em to a tree without a trial, and kill ‘em? I’ve read the Bible cover to cover a number of times, but I can’t seem to recall the quote from Jesus about “torture people you hate.” Or was it Paul? Could you remind me?

Thanks google for helping another kook drudge up an almost year old thread?

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This page contains a single entry by Nick Matzke published on May 8, 2007 1:14 PM.

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