Council of Europe resolution sure to spark interest in intelligent design

| 27 Comments
Denyse O'Leary Wrote:

I have ordered a copy of Harun Yahya’s Atlas of Creation, which (some say) has got the Council’s shirts in a knot, and will tell you what I think after I have read it.

Seems that Denyse is quite forthcoming about Intelligent Design being nothing more than Creationism. Seems that the Council was right after all.

27 Comments

I wonder if the DI is going to sue Harun Yahya for plagiarism.

Well, I am sure that between the two of them they can sell books to eachother

I hear it has all kinds of pretty pictures in it, perhaps from the album of the evolutiondeceit Yahoo group. It may keep her occupied for some time, and she will come out drooling about how beauty in nature proves Creation.

Can’t wait for the review.

I have ordered a copy of Harun Yahya’s Atlas of Creation, which (some say) has got the Council’s shirts in a knot, and will tell you what I think after I have read it.

Do you suppose it will be any different from what she thinks before having read it?

A quick google of “Atlas of Creation” produces

http://www.harunyahya.com/books/dar[…]ation_02.php

Fossils are the most important evidence of the details of prehistoric life. From various regions of the world, hundreds of millions of fossils have been obtained, and they provide a window into the history and structure of life on Earth. Millions of fossils indicate that species appeared suddenly, fully-formed and with their complex structures, and have undergone no changes in the millions of years since. This is significant proof that life was brought into existence out of nothing–in other words that it was created. Not a single fossil suggests that living things formed gradually, in other words that they evolved. The fossil specimens that evolutionists maintain as “intermediate fossils” are few in number, and the invalidity of these has been scientifically proven. At the same time, some of the specimens depicted as intermediate fossils have actually been revealed as fakes, demonstrating that Darwinists are in such a state of despair as to resort to fraud.

For the last 150 years or so, fossils from excavations carried out all over the world prove that fish have always been fish, insects have always been insects, birds have always been birds and reptiles have always been reptiles. Not one single fossil has pointed to any transition between living species–in other words, from fish to amphibian or from reptile to bird. In short, the fossil record has definitively demolished the theory of evolution’s basic claim, that species descended from one another by undergoing changes over long periods of time.

Any chance that her review will point out what a pack of lies that is? And that’s just two paragraphs.

You mean Denyse didn’t get her own complimentary copy in the mail during that earlier mass distribution? How sad that she didn’t make the list. I guess that shows us how the Discovery Institute and its apologists rank in the eyes of Turkish creationists.

Any chance that her review will point out what a pack of lies that is? And that’s just two paragraphs.

Hehehe… You’re so silly like that, Poppers…

Having seen Denyse’s review of ID, it seems fair to conclude that she lacks much in scientific understanding.

As you read it, be prepared for many, many factual errors. With the “Makapansgat pebble” they go beyond factual error into photographic enhancement. It makes me wonder about the rest of the photos and text.

Not that I needed a reason to wonder.

Cheers, Jeff

You’re so silly like that, Poppers…

My personality is part of God’s inscrutable plan, dontcha know.

I hope she paid market price for that thing, and shipping.

I got a free one. I’m worried about it putting a hole in the floor.

Zeno: You mean Denyse didn’t get her own complimentary copy in the mail during that earlier mass distribution? How sad that she didn’t make the list. I guess that shows us how the Discovery Institute and its apologists rank in the eyes of Turkish creationists.

They rank pretty low.

“Intelligent Design” Is Another of Satan’s Distractions

In rejecting one false claim such as evolution, one must be very careful not to fall prey to another of Satan’s snares. One of Satan’s main objectives is to prevent the recognition of Allah by any means possible, and to cause people to ignore His remembrance.

There are those whom Satan has not been able to deceive with the concept of evolution. But if he can divert them in another direction, such as that of “intelligent design” he will again have achieved his end, in turning people away from remembering Allah.

To say, “If there is no evolution, then there is intelligent design” is nothing less than adopting yet another false idol to replace the one of evolution.”

http://www.harunyahya.com/new_relea[…]t_design.php

Seems that Denyse is quite forthcoming about Intelligent Design being nothing more than Creationism. Seems that the Council was right after all.

Just like Darwinism is nothing more than atheism masked as science. Seems that Darwin-skeptics were right after all.

Having seen Denyse’s review of ID, it seems fair to conclude that she lacks much in scientific understanding.

That’s right. And the evidence that she lacks “scientific understanding” is that she doesn’t believe in the magical creative powers of the mindless forces of nature.

I predict that there will be some circularity in your reply:

1. She doesn’t accept Darwinism because she doesn’t understand science.

2. We know that she doesn’t understand science because she doesn’t accept Darwinism. (Round and round and round we go)

PvM Wrote:

Seems that Denyse is quite forthcoming about Intelligent Design being nothing more than Creationism.

Well, no IDer ever denied that ID was about encouraging unreasonable doubt about evolution, and acceptance of some useless design-based non-explanation, if that’s what you mean. Though they’d never dare use those words. But the ID scam itself is no more classic creationism (regardless of what the rubes infer or are encouraged to infer) than fundamentalist Christianity is fundamentalist Islam.

Nevertheless, anti-Islam almost always takes a back seat to anti-science among the most hard-core authoritarians. O’Leary has an opportunity to buck the trend, but my guess that her prior commitment to pseudoscience will prevent her from doing the right thing in the eyes of most mainstream conservatives.

I see the new code has the same bug of not showing all posts as the old code.

Just like Darwinism is nothing more than atheism masked as science. Seems that Darwin-skeptics were right after all.

Seems that you lie at every opportunity.

Looks like being an evolutionary biologist in Turkey, where Harun Yahya has a lot of influence is getting dangerous. From Wikipedia, his organisation has been busy walking their talk and intimidating scientists into silence. IIRC they also managed to get some internet links with the west cut, whose crime was defending evolution and criticizing Islamofascists like Yahya.

I’m sure it has done a lot to keep Turkish science a few steps behind the rest of the world. There are some talented Turkish scientists…working in the USA.

Similar things have been attempted in the US by Xian fundies, albeit with less success. If it is the thought that counts, religious bigots and extremists are all pretty similar. Without eternal vigilance and with some bad luck, it can happen here.

wikipedia:

The SRF [Harun Yahya’s organisation] also spearheaded an effort to attack Turkish academics who taught evolutionary theory. A number of academics were harassed, threatened and slandered in fliers that labeled them “communists, separatists and Maoists” for teaching evolution[citation needed]. In 1999, six of the professors won a civil court case against the SRF for defamation and were awarded $6,000 each[citation needed].

The court decided that “a severe and unjust attack was perpetrated on the plaintiffs’ personal rights, by listing the names of the scientists defending the theory of evolution and describing them as communists and separatists on the flyers distributed by the foundation.”[citation needed]

Professor Amit Sayan summed up the effect of the SRF’s campaign when, in 2005, he said: In 1998, I was able to motivate six members of the Turkish Academy of Sciences to speak out against the creationist movement. Today, it’s impossible to motivate anyone. They’re afraid they’ll be attacked by the radical Islamists and the BAV[citation needed]. (BAV is Turkish for SRF.)

”…it seems fair to conclude that she lacks much in scientific understanding.”

The beginning of scientific understanding is to know the difference between science and apologetics. Sadly, not all achieve this level of wisdom.

raven Wrote:

Looks like being an evolutionary biologist in Turkey, where Harun Yahya has a lot of influence is getting dangerous. From Wikipedia, his organisation has been busy walking their talk and intimidating scientists into silence. IIRC they also managed to get some internet links with the west cut, whose crime was defending evolution and criticizing Islamofascists like Yahya.

If the DI refers to “letting students learn about ID on their own time” as “censorship,” and “requiring scientists to use a process that actually works (provide testable hypotheses and independently verifiable results)” as “intimidating” (or worse), I am very interested in what they would call Yahya’s tactics.

Just like Darwinism is nothing more than atheism masked as science. Seems that Darwin-skeptics were right after all.

Still violating St Augustine’s warnings? Have you no faith that you have to make your God look so silly through your own ignorance and misleading claims?

As a Christian and scientist who fully accepts evolutionary theory, I find your comments objectionable, juvenile and un-Christian.

Well, Harun Yahya did manage to cut some internet links between the world and Turkey. Apparently, he has a thin skin and a lot of influence in Turkey. Chances are PT is next.

I can see why the Council of Europe is uneasy about creationists. What they want is anything but what we would call freedom of speech, thought, and religion.

from scientificamerican.com August 21, 2007

“Unbelievable – it’s now officially a trend.

While we were busy breaking the story that Stuart Pivar is using the courts to pursue one of America’s most-read science blogs, Harun Yahya (the pen name of Adnan Oktar), Turkish millionaire and conspicuous creationist, managed to get all of Wordpress.com blocked in Turkey because of comments he didn’t like that appeared on blogs hosted by that site. (Thanks for the tip, Adamant / Russel Seitz!)

Wordpress.com is the fourth biggest blog hosting site on the internet, and is home to more than 1 million blogs. According to the founding developer of Wordpress, Matt Mullenweg, his site was doing more than 12 million pageviews a month in Turkey – in other words, a large, thriving citizen-journalist community has been completely cut off because of the ego of a single wealthy creationist.

Yahya / Oktar claims that some of what was said about him on Wordpress.com hosted blogs was slander. I don’t know how the laws work in Turkey, but in the U.S., the procedure for addressing such claims differs somewhat from the tactics Yahya employed: getting the government to use its central firewall for censorship.”

Mats lying again:

Just like Darwinism is nothing more than atheism masked as science. Seems that Darwin-skeptics were right after all.

So, then, can you demonstrate how Intelligent Design is a science?

Frank J Wrote:

the ID scam itself is no more classic creationism

Well, no, ID isn’t always Creationism even if nearly all proponents are. But it is decidedly creationism as it can’t exclude it due to lack of specified mechanisms.

raven Wrote:

Looks like being an evolutionary biologist in Turkey, where Harun Yahya has a lot of influence is getting dangerous.

In all fairness, being biologist in islamic countries may mean being circumspect about evolution among other things, if I remember some television reports correct.

As we can see, Turkey blocked a whole commercial site in response to creationist leanings. This has the purpose to influence other nations commercial policies.

Both these factors makes the slow processing of Turkey’s application for EU membership all the more unfortunate. Being a member would mean having to accept more democracy and foreign influences.

Frank J Wrote:

O’Leary has an opportunity to buck the trend, but my guess that her prior commitment to pseudoscience will prevent her from doing the right thing in the eyes of most mainstream conservatives.

But if we make creationists aware of Adnan Oktar’s sentiment against ID and christianity, don’t you think it will be problematical for anyone of ID’s puppet heads to make anything more of it? Nothing will prevent her from making a positive review of the book, but she can possibly be forced to take a negative position on Oktar’s movement. Not that it would influence Oktar much, but it could prohibit global cooperation among creotards.

Finally, taking the troll bait:

Just like Darwinism is nothing more than atheism masked as science.

This makes no sense, since Darwinism was early evolutionary theory. In any case, school yard you-too’s are nothing but the two wrongs make right fallacy.

But more basically, you never see scientists review atheist’s texts with an expectation to find science in them. They are separate activities.

I predict that there will be some circularity in your reply:

No, we don’t care whether she accepts the old theories you mention.

We care about her being anti-scientific. She recently come out with a book denouncing neuroscience results. She has also authored a book denouncing abiogenesis. (By Design or By Chance? The Growing Controversy on the Origins of Life in the Universe

So you see, even if she accept modern evolutionary theory or not, we can reasonably conclude that she is generally lacking scientific understanding.

“denouncing abiogenesis” - as a science. We don’t know how it happened yet, of course.

Seems that Denyse is quite forthcoming about Intelligent Design being nothing more than Creationism. Seems that the Council was right after all.

Seems that Mats has absolutely nothing substantive to contribute – as usual.

Tell us, Mats, what you know of Harun Yahya. Tell us about his qualifications, and his output, as a scientist. Oh wait, he’s not a scientist, he’s an interior designer. Tell us how you feel about his followers’ threatening physical violence against professors who try to teach evolution. Do you agree with such tactics? Does Denyse?

About this Entry

This page contains a single entry by PvM published on October 6, 2007 5:27 PM.

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