Denyse O'Leary Wrote:I have ordered a copy of Harun Yahya’s Atlas of Creation, which (some say) has got the Council’s shirts in a knot, and will tell you what I think after I have read it.
Seems that Denyse is quite forthcoming about Intelligent Design being nothing more than Creationism. Seems that the Council was right after all.
I wonder if the DI is going to sue Harun Yahya for plagiarism.
Well, I am sure that between the two of them they can sell books to eachother
I hear it has all kinds of pretty pictures in it, perhaps from the album of the evolutiondeceit Yahoo group. It may keep her occupied for some time, and she will come out drooling about how beauty in nature proves Creation.
Can’t wait for the review.
Do you suppose it will be any different from what she thinks before having read it?
A quick google of “Atlas of Creation” produces
http://www.harunyahya.com/books/dar[…]ation_02.php
Any chance that her review will point out what a pack of lies that is? And that’s just two paragraphs.
You mean Denyse didn’t get her own complimentary copy in the mail during that earlier mass distribution? How sad that she didn’t make the list. I guess that shows us how the Discovery Institute and its apologists rank in the eyes of Turkish creationists.
Hehehe… You’re so silly like that, Poppers…
Having seen Denyse’s review of ID, it seems fair to conclude that she lacks much in scientific understanding.
As you read it, be prepared for many, many factual errors. With the “Makapansgat pebble” they go beyond factual error into photographic enhancement. It makes me wonder about the rest of the photos and text.
Not that I needed a reason to wonder.
Cheers, Jeff
My personality is part of God’s inscrutable plan, dontcha know.
I hope she paid market price for that thing, and shipping.
I got a free one. I’m worried about it putting a hole in the floor.
They rank pretty low.
http://www.harunyahya.com/new_relea[…]t_design.php
Just like Darwinism is nothing more than atheism masked as science. Seems that Darwin-skeptics were right after all.
That’s right. And the evidence that she lacks “scientific understanding” is that she doesn’t believe in the magical creative powers of the mindless forces of nature.
I predict that there will be some circularity in your reply:
1. She doesn’t accept Darwinism because she doesn’t understand science.
2. We know that she doesn’t understand science because she doesn’t accept Darwinism. (Round and round and round we go)
Well, no IDer ever denied that ID was about encouraging unreasonable doubt about evolution, and acceptance of some useless design-based non-explanation, if that’s what you mean. Though they’d never dare use those words. But the ID scam itself is no more classic creationism (regardless of what the rubes infer or are encouraged to infer) than fundamentalist Christianity is fundamentalist Islam.
Nevertheless, anti-Islam almost always takes a back seat to anti-science among the most hard-core authoritarians. O’Leary has an opportunity to buck the trend, but my guess that her prior commitment to pseudoscience will prevent her from doing the right thing in the eyes of most mainstream conservatives.
I see the new code has the same bug of not showing all posts as the old code.
Seems that you lie at every opportunity.
Looks like being an evolutionary biologist in Turkey, where Harun Yahya has a lot of influence is getting dangerous. From Wikipedia, his organisation has been busy walking their talk and intimidating scientists into silence. IIRC they also managed to get some internet links with the west cut, whose crime was defending evolution and criticizing Islamofascists like Yahya.
I’m sure it has done a lot to keep Turkish science a few steps behind the rest of the world. There are some talented Turkish scientists…working in the USA.
Similar things have been attempted in the US by Xian fundies, albeit with less success. If it is the thought that counts, religious bigots and extremists are all pretty similar. Without eternal vigilance and with some bad luck, it can happen here.
”…it seems fair to conclude that she lacks much in scientific understanding.”
The beginning of scientific understanding is to know the difference between science and apologetics. Sadly, not all achieve this level of wisdom.
If the DI refers to “letting students learn about ID on their own time” as “censorship,” and “requiring scientists to use a process that actually works (provide testable hypotheses and independently verifiable results)” as “intimidating” (or worse), I am very interested in what they would call Yahya’s tactics.
Still violating St Augustine’s warnings? Have you no faith that you have to make your God look so silly through your own ignorance and misleading claims?
As a Christian and scientist who fully accepts evolutionary theory, I find your comments objectionable, juvenile and un-Christian.
Well, Harun Yahya did manage to cut some internet links between the world and Turkey. Apparently, he has a thin skin and a lot of influence in Turkey. Chances are PT is next.
I can see why the Council of Europe is uneasy about creationists. What they want is anything but what we would call freedom of speech, thought, and religion.
Mats lying again:
So, then, can you demonstrate how Intelligent Design is a science?
Well, no, ID isn’t always Creationism even if nearly all proponents are. But it is decidedly creationism as it can’t exclude it due to lack of specified mechanisms.
In all fairness, being biologist in islamic countries may mean being circumspect about evolution among other things, if I remember some television reports correct.
As we can see, Turkey blocked a whole commercial site in response to creationist leanings. This has the purpose to influence other nations commercial policies.
Both these factors makes the slow processing of Turkey’s application for EU membership all the more unfortunate. Being a member would mean having to accept more democracy and foreign influences.
But if we make creationists aware of Adnan Oktar’s sentiment against ID and christianity, don’t you think it will be problematical for anyone of ID’s puppet heads to make anything more of it? Nothing will prevent her from making a positive review of the book, but she can possibly be forced to take a negative position on Oktar’s movement. Not that it would influence Oktar much, but it could prohibit global cooperation among creotards.
Finally, taking the troll bait:
This makes no sense, since Darwinism was early evolutionary theory. In any case, school yard you-too’s are nothing but the two wrongs make right fallacy.
But more basically, you never see scientists review atheist’s texts with an expectation to find science in them. They are separate activities.
No, we don’t care whether she accepts the old theories you mention.
We care about her being anti-scientific. She recently come out with a book denouncing neuroscience results. She has also authored a book denouncing abiogenesis. (By Design or By Chance? The Growing Controversy on the Origins of Life in the Universe
So you see, even if she accept modern evolutionary theory or not, we can reasonably conclude that she is generally lacking scientific understanding.
“denouncing abiogenesis” - as a science. We don’t know how it happened yet, of course.
Seems that Denyse is quite forthcoming about Intelligent Design being nothing more than Creationism. Seems that the Council was right after all.
Seems that Mats has absolutely nothing substantive to contribute – as usual.
Tell us, Mats, what you know of Harun Yahya. Tell us about his qualifications, and his output, as a scientist. Oh wait, he’s not a scientist, he’s an interior designer. Tell us how you feel about his followers’ threatening physical violence against professors who try to teach evolution. Do you agree with such tactics? Does Denyse?
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