Noodled: Evolution Beats Intelligent Design in Florida

| 466 Comments

On Wired.com Brandon Keim reports that the “Members of a Florida county school board who last month wanted a classroom balance between evolution with intelligent design have quietly reversed their positions.”

Merry Christmas to everyone.

What happened? You can start with the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The satirical religious Web site asserts that an omnipotent, airborne clump of spaghetti intelligently designed all life with the deft touch of its “noodly appendage.” Adherents call themselves Pastafarians. They deluged Polk school board members with e-mail demanding equal time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism’s version of intelligent design.

“They’ve made us the laughingstock of the world,” said Margaret Lofton, a school board member who supports intelligent design. She dismissed the e-mail as ridiculous and insulting.

Indeed, intelligent design does tend to do that to people.

466 Comments

It is unlikely that the science or satire had much of an impact on people that profoundly ignorant. It did not change their minds one bit about wanting their religious beliefs pushed into the classroom. These type of people do not listen to the science side. If they did, they would have never proposed teaching intelligent design in the first place.

The switch went in, and it was perpetrated by the same guys that sold them the ID scam. They had the bait and switch run on them and they had two choices. Take the switch, or drop the issue. When the con artists that sold you on the intelligent design scam come to you and tell you about this wonderful new scam that they are running, and the new scam takes pains to not even mention that ID ever existed, what are your options?

Some of the creationist rubes like the Ohio State School Board bunch did take the switch scam from the ID perps (Meyer ran that bait and switch scam personally), but even the guys that took the switch seem to have eventually dropped it too. It doesn’t take a genius to tell anyone that the competency and integrity level of such a group of creationist rubes has to be fairly low. Who would try and implement the switch scam when it is coming from the same guys that you know lied to you about the ID scam?

If Florida drops the issue without taking up the ID replacement scam Texas would be the only place that I know of that is still actively pushing the switch scam. McLeroy is about the last guy that you would want involved in implementing the switch scam. Not only was he an IDiot supporter, but he has made statements about the switch scam and how it is supposed to work in training people to run in the switch. That State Rep in Carolina might still be thinking about pushing the replacement scam, but he has also been tainted by the teach ID creationist scam. He can’t deny what he tried to do anymore than the ID perps can.

The ID scam artist perps need a pristine group of creationist rubes to run the replacement scam. Then they need the courts to look the other way and not notice that the same guys that ran the dishonest ID creationist scam are running the new scam. It hasn’t happened, yet, and it would not have happened in Florida.

Have you seen this blog?

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arc[…]sg10645.html

[ If this has been discussed before, my apologies in advance ]

Here’s a different take on creationism/ID: “The Quest for Right,” a multi-volume series on science, attacks Darwinism indirectly, by attacking quantum mechanics:

“American Atheists base their reasoning on Quantum Interpretation, hand in hand with Quantum Mathematics. Summoning the dark forces of quantum mysticism, with mathematical incantations, possesses the power to bewilder, and thus con, the average persons seemingly at will, into believing the bizarre and surreal: Z Particles, Neutrinos, Leptons, Quarks, Weak Bosons, etc. Mystics attempt to pass off quantum abuses as legitimate science, by expressing the theories in symbolic fashion. These formula represent the greatest hoax ever pulled upon an unsuspecting public.…The objective.…is to expedite the return to classical physics, by exposing quantum dirty tricks. That is, unethical behavior or acts,…to undermine and destroy the credibility of Biblical histories. These dirty tricks include: Absolute dating systems, Big Bang Theory, Antimatter, and Oort Cloud. These…have no further station in Science.”

http://www.questforright.com/

[ A more sophisticated way to.….

it has the same kind of weird frantic grammar as the timecube website.

All of this further points out the huge need for better science education in our schools. If our high school graduates really understood how science works as well as how Darwin came to the conclusions he did, there would be less controversy and foolishness. Regarding quantum mechanics: it isn’t just theory. Quantum mechanics is a currently useful tool in many spheres, especially in electronic and space fields.

As one poster in the link said - if the guy has just proved that quantum mechanics is false, then he has also proved that the computer hosting his website does not exist, and the laser that burns his DVDs also does not exist.

Here’s a different take on creationism/ID: “The Quest for Right,” a multi-volume series on science, attacks Darwinism indirectly, by attacking quantum mechanics:

Attacking quantum mechanical magic is just a start. To do this right, one has to point out that General and Special Relativity and Newtonian Gravity theory are also just tools of the Dark Forces. This points out, inexorably, that other great hoax; the Germ Theory of Disease.

HIV/AIDs doesn’t exist, global warming doesn’t exist and it is god’s doing anyway, and the Holocaust never happened. The combustion theory of motors is a fraud which means automobile, boat, and air travel are illusions. And BTW, if you send $500 to your local prosperity ministry, you will be a millionaire someday.

About time for Brenda Tucker to show up and explain her cycles and Gerases again.

Ron Okimoto Wrote:

These type of people do not listen to the science side. If they did, they would have never proposed teaching intelligent design in the first place.

Heck, they don’t even listen to the creationist side. Certainly not critically, as the DI pretends to want them to listen to the science side. If they did, they’d be know that at most one of the mutually contradictory creationist positions can be right. And that there would not be any reason for the increasing “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach, except to cover up the fact that none of those positions fit the evidence.

Those questforright people even pulled their material from their website, and they are now only accessible for the select in-group with working passwords to a secret site. Which is just how all honest working scientists publish their material, of course… With the World Scientists Conspiracy being a secret cult and all that…

I wrote similar emails to the Kansas school board back when they were going down the path to IDC hell. One of the fundy members (Cathy Martin?) wrote me back and warned me that “mocking God is a serious offense”

In spite of her claim I was never charged with any “mocking” crimes by intelligent designers, space aliens or deities.

On a more rational note other Kansas school board members wrote me back and thanked me for my comments. I also suggested they use Judge Jones 139 page ruling to teach the controversy. Several said that was a great idea and asked me to attend their public meetings and make that suggestion.

I encourage everyone to communicate with these school boards, whether you live in their district or not.

Mr_Christopher Wrote:

One of the fundy members (Cathy Martin?) wrote me back and warned me that “mocking God is a serious offense”

I would have quickly replied: “I agree, so why do you do it?”

Good one Frank!

“They’ve made us the laughingstock of the world,” said Margaret Lofton, a school board member who supports intelligent design. She dismissed the e-mail as ridiculous and insulting.

Would they have rather had gone through with “teaching” intelligent design, and had their children become both laughingstocks AND educational failures, instead?

Stanton: Would they have rather had gone through with “teaching” intelligent design, and had their children become both laughingstocks AND educational failures, instead?

and cost their School Board a million dollars in court costs, as the losing side?

You made yourself a laughing stock Ms. Lofton. The Pastafarians just helped the world become aware of it.

To add to Frank’s excellent retort, be sure to tell such people: “We are not mocking god, we are mocking YOU.”

“They’ve made us the laughingstock of the world,” said Margaret Lofton, a school board member who supports intelligent design. She dismissed the e-mail as ridiculous and insulting.

It is ridiculous and insulting. What you don’t get, Lofton, is that it’s a mirror-image of your ridiculous and insulting stance, which is why this ridicule worked.

Glen D http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7

To add to Frank’s excellent retort, be sure to tell such people: “We are not mocking god, we are mocking YOU.”

Considering the difficulty that IDCists (and fundamentalists in general) have in telling the difference between their beliefs and god’s beliefs, it’s probable that they can’t really tell the difference between mockery of themselves and mockery of god. The alternative is that they know very well who’s being mocked and why, but they’re trying to misrepresent their detractors in order to build support from those faithful too stupid and lazy to read more than sound bites from their own side.

It comes down to arrogance vs. dishonesty. IDCists have a surplus of both, so I’m not sure which is more likely.

Elsewhere, at Amazon.com, I have observed sarcastically that there is more evidence supporting Klingon Cosmology than there is for Intelligent Design. In the future, perhaps some “Klingons” can send e-mail complaints to school board members sympathetic to Intelligent Design, and insist that Klingon Cosmology be taught alongside it.

Here’s why I think there’s more evidence in support of Klingon Cosmology than there is for Intelligent Design:

1) Since you see Klingons often on television, then they must be real (Don’t you agree that everything you see on television is real?).

2) An official Klingon Language Institute exists here in North America.

3) Shakespeare’s plays and the Bible have been translated into Klingon.

4) People have held wedding ceremonies in Klingon.

Furthermore, I have proposed a testable Intelligent Design hypothesis that is consistent with contemporary evolutionary theory: KRID (Kwok - Roddenberry Intelligent Design hypothesis). KRID states that sometime approximately 4.2 Billion Years Ago, a Klingon battlecruiser visited the primordial Earth and seeded it with microbes. Therefore, the Intelligent Designer was a Klingon!

I have tried to interest Bill Dembski in writing a definitive book on Klingon Cosmology instead of wasting his time, trying to disseminate the mendacious intellectual pornography known as Intelligent Design, but alas, he’s not interested (Maybe someone can ask him why he’s turned down a potentially lucrative offer like this one, the next time he comes to your town.).

Hope you all have a Happy New Year!

Cheers,

John

1) Since you see Klingons often on television, then they must be real (Don’t you agree that everything you see on television is real?).

C’mon, everyone knows television’s not real. They’d have to be on talk radio.

3) Shakespeare’s plays and the Bible have been translated into Klingon.

“Shakespeare’s” plays were originally written in Klingon.

raven: And BTW, if you send $500 to your local prosperity ministry, you will be a millionaire someday.

…because with enough support, these ministries will fund the election of politicians who will also drive the dollar into the ground to the point where being a millionaire can’t even guarantee you a coffee at Starbucks.

RJM:

raven: And BTW, if you send $500 to your local prosperity ministry, you will be a millionaire someday.

…because with enough support, these ministries will fund the election of politicians who will also drive the dollar into the ground to the point where being a millionaire can’t even guarantee you a coffee at Starbucks.

Why would you want to buy coffee at Starbucks in the first place, anyhow?

McDonald’s coffee tastes better, and the coffee they serve at Seattle’s Best inside of Border’s bookstores are made in much more sanitary conditions.

John, you’re wasting your time with Bill Dembski regarding your Klingon theory. Instead pose it to David Springer. That is exactly the sort of theory he advocates at UD, with a straight face I might add.

Chris

Unfortunately - That was only 1 county in Florida that “Backed off”. Polk County. Pinellas County is still “wishy washy” - but the counties are not the big issue. The BoE is scheduled to vote, in February, on whether or not they will approve the new science standards for the state. We have 3 - maybe 4- board members that want ID to be addressed in the standards before they will approve them. As it is right now - the science standards are failing and need this serious upgrade ASAP! I am fairly confident (but not positive) that ID will not be introduced into the standards. I (and probably many others) have made it clear to the BoE that I have “Standing” and won’t hesitate to take them to court. However, I’m afraid that they will alter the standards as they are written so that they don’t “offend” anyone.(Take the word evolution out) Hopefully they will get it done before my child makes it to High School in 2 years. (Sorry about all the parenthesis - I can’t help myself)

Considering the difficulty that IDCists (and fundamentalists in general) have in telling the difference between their beliefs and god’s beliefs, it’s probable that they can’t really tell the difference between mockery of themselves and mockery of god

But really, how CAN there be a difference, when their gods speak to them directly, straight into their ears, with a genuine (deep, male, human) voice? They aren’t making up with they wish their gods would say, oh no, they’re getting the straight skinny directly.

Flint: …their gods speak to them directly, straight into their ears…

That’s not exactly how it works, according to Julian Jaynes, in his 1976 book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. Jaynes hypothesized that the voice of god “speaks” directly from one cerebral hemisphere into the auditory center of the other cerebral hemisphere, using electrical signals (in “machine language,” to use a term invented later) rather than actual acoustic energy, because the bandwidth available in the corpus callosum (which connects the two hemispheres) isn’t large enough to carry direct auditory signals. That’s how the Delphic oracles and the Hebrew prophets and Joan of Arc and others “heard” the voice of god/gods inside their heads…not “straight into their ears.”

Today, we have special institutions set aside for people who hear voices in their heads. They’re called “churches.”

Sorry to break the bad news Stanton but Seattle’s Best is Starbucks

“They’ve made us the laughingstock of the world,” said Margaret Lofton, a school board member who supports intelligent design.

My dear old Mom always pointed out that nobody can make you a laugingstock if you done’t do foolish things.

Paul Burnett, I came away from that book with the distinct feeling that at some point in my life there actually was a Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. Mine, that is!

Actually, several such occasions. One day, I’m looking good and feeling sharp; next day I’m damage/collateral because a basic assumption I’d made failed to find itself supported by reality and thus much damage control is enforced. Changes are made, even the painful ones. Life goes on. And after, I am still me, but not who I was.

This seems to parallel the TOE in that things that work continue to work, and them that don’t, don’t.

Such parallels have always struck me as pregnant, instructive, and worthy of further examination.

Question: Could my point of view be the result of certain neural connections made in the past, without my personal, willful intent (or any other non-neural (or intentional) influence)? Or must my point of view come from a source that is beyond, even hidden, from human apprehension?

Not having all the data at hand, and judging merely from experience and observation, I would declare the former is closest to a satisfactory answer. After all, what you do when watching a magician is look for the trick. When watching reality, you look for explanations. Personally, the trick is fun but the explanation is useful. No contest.

I declare that the process of learning is quite similar to what we observe in the study of biological evolution, and similarly illuminates the manifold opportunities available when complex systems interact.

This is part of the reason that I share a sense of unity with the world at large, the people who inhabit it and the wider universe beyond. I’ve learned that I am not special. I am part of the rest. I am not considered separately from reality; I am an integral part of and a natural product of it. My presence will have some influence. I’ll return whence I came. Not spiritually but … comfortably. Really! In fact, you could trace my atoms as they go if you wanted to.

And now, to supper!

Happy New Year

E Pluribus Unum

Sorry to break the bad news Stanton but Seattle’s Best is Starbucks

really?

that is bad news.

things must have changed drastically in that town in the last 15 years if that is indeed the case.

PvM, are you still around, or have you given up on this long thread? Would there be any legal problem with making Casey’s letter and Mark Southerland’s reply the topic of a new thread, so that more people see it?

Segregation may be the only solution. This appears to be a “My Daddy can beat up your Daddy” kind of thing. LOL

For the record, I did not say anything about any legal ramifications about not getting permission to reproduce someone’s e-mail. I was thinking more about keeping the moral high ground. However, I find I must agree with whoever pointed out that public officials replying to questions from constituents should not have an expectation of privacy.

jesse hoots:

Segregation may be the only solution. This appears to be a “My Daddy can beat up your Daddy” kind of thing. LOL

And so the circle closes. Segregation, Final solution, holy quests, flat-out bulling, Holocaust denial, …

ABC to XYZ to KKK, Jessus teh crapenter to Beelzebub.

Anathema indeed! Antichrist, anyone? Forked tongue, perhaps? When the Devil gets old, He’ll be gettin’ rilijun.

Or maybe I’m just seeing unwholy ghosts all around… Better go check under my bed!

Segregation may be the only solution. This appears to be a “My Daddy can beat up your Daddy” kind of thing. LOL

tell, me, mr. hoots, you don’t happen to belong to this organization, do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Exodus

Ichthyic:

Segregation may be the only solution. This appears to be a “My Daddy can beat up your Daddy” kind of thing. LOL

tell, me, mr. hoots, you don’t happen to belong to this organization, do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Exodus

Those people are flipin’ crazy!!

jesse hoots:

Segregation may be the only solution. This appears to be a “My Daddy can beat up your Daddy” kind of thing. LOL

Jesse, you seemed to have missed my question, so I’ll post it again for you.

Jackelope King:

jesse hoots:

Nigel…Legion are cast out angels. Cast into this world from Heaven. You may be one, and if not, you are definitely in league with them. You are a ranting demon. You go into Holy scripture (of which you know nothing about) and pick out a phrase and try and use it as a tool. I have tried to get responses from True Christians. Not people straddling the fence. They obviously have no interest in your worldly gibberish. They obviously have better things to do. You are one-sided unthinking people who can only believe what they see. And when you do see it, you want to take it apart and give it your own useless meaning. Lucifer is your God, and he has helped you dig a hole so deep for yourselves you will never get out. In short, everything about your heathen asses SUCK !! Evolutionist Bullshit.… Have a nice day.

Hey, Jesse? I’m a Catholic, and someone who accepts modern evolutionary science as the best explanation we have about the origin of genetic diversity in organisms today. I consider myself a “True Christian”.

You’ve heard from me now, and other Christians who accept modern evolutionary science. I hope this fits your request in Comment #139653: it’s a false dilemma to claim that you can either be a “True Christian” or you can accept evolutionary science.

So what’s your answer?

Stacy.… Strange group. Don’t think I ever heard of anything like that. LOL Also, why would you assume I was on a side, and why the religious one? I could not care less who wins this debate.

jackelope.…You may have missed my post. For me this is “Thesis” study. Most all posts were made by friends here at home. Hard for me to think in terms of nastiness. Subject was “Comfort Zone”. We all have one. Only two posts were from me. One asking if this may be a social problem. And another with thoughts about my father. This situation with these folks (of which I think most are just average people)will most likely never have an end. Unless someone blows the world to pieces. And that is likely.

Jesse - I’m not sure what you are talking about?

Jesse, I noticed your “thesis” statement right away - but I still find you// you all - untrustworthy. If that was an experiment for a thsis - it was mean. If it wasn’t, then you are really in need of some help. I’m dealing with that kind of fanatic right now - for real. As far as taking sides - I don’t know what you mean?

jesse hoots:

jackelope.…You may have missed my post. For me this is “Thesis” study. Most all posts were made by friends here at home. Hard for me to think in terms of nastiness. Subject was “Comfort Zone”. We all have one. Only two posts were from me. One asking if this may be a social problem. And another with thoughts about my father. This situation with these folks (of which I think most are just average people)will most likely never have an end. Unless someone blows the world to pieces. And that is likely.

You do a thesis study by trolling the internet? What broken down diploma mill would have a lying lackwit like you as a student?

I mean, a reputable college would have a student expelled if his thesis research consisted of hate-rantings and lies.

And you actually are married and have an 11-year old daughter? What kind of values do you teach your daughter? That it’s ok to lie, cheat, hate and steal because God said it was ok?

Jesse,

I have young children who are more mature than you.

One of the guys says you are a collection of disruptive misfits. I think you just have a low level of tolerance. LOL Good grief people, it’s science. A person that can’t return to his/her comfort zone after mental trauma is considered psychotic. Seek help. Too bad we could not get some replies from your opponents. Trolling the Internet? That is what it’s for. Information. If you offer yourselves up for slaughter, then why question being slaughtered?

Jesse Wrote:

Good grief people, it’s science.

Something you seem to fail to understand.

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This page contains a single entry by PvM published on December 27, 2007 11:26 PM.

Judge explains ‘intelligent design’ ruling was the previous entry in this blog.

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