Expelled gone missing from Santa Clara

More from the person who initially reported

“I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises.”

But later admits

“And since I was literally 3 feet away from Myers when he was “expelled,” I heard every word. It was obvious he was being kicked out by theatre management because he was not invited nor was he on the pre-submitted list. He didn’t cause a disruption per se; he was kindly escorted out.”

Seems to me that the Expelled people messed up by using the same RSVP site which invited anyone to be reused for a private viewing. Nothing on the site suggested that one had to be invited before, a simple registration code could have reduced the embarassment to the organizers.

Well, Geez, did anyone expect the guys responsible for Expelled to tell the truth? The sad thing is that even their supporters probably think that they are lying.

Expelled from Seattle? Darn, I was hoping to fly out there and catch a double feature with Michael Medved’s grainy home video of Bigfoot.

Seriously, I’m not yet convinced that this latest scam won’t sell to most nonscientists. Even if the movie is a flop, conspiracy junkies and science-haters will spread the feel-good sound bites.

The irony is that I know first hand what it’s like to be “expelled” by mainstream science for having an unorthodox idea. The “conspiracy” that “expelled” me in 1981 was the data that simply did not support my pet hypothesis. I even felt some bitterness toward mainstream science. But unlike the anti-evolution whiners I took personal responsibility instead of demanding special treatment.

Just for the heck of it I tried to see if and where Expelled was playing here in central NJ once I read about PZ’s experience. Amazingly, the link was and still is down - at least for me. Bummer. Must be all us ungodly great unwashed here in lbral joisey.

The Expelled people are like those kids who post info about their keg party on Myspace and then are totally surprised when the cops show up and bust them for underage drinking. They don’t seem to understand that if they make a website with a form for signing up for one of these screenings, everyone with web access can use the form.

Now what kind of a movie do you need an invitation to? What kind of a movie has free screenings? What kind of hypocrite expells people from a movie called Expelled?

Sounds to me like these guys have something to hide. Sounds to me like they are trying to prevent anyone who knows anything from seeing the movie. Sounds to me like they know that they are going to get sued for something and just want to get as much mileage out of the movie as they can before someone catches on.

What do they think is going to happen when they finally release the movie? Do they really think that their propaganda will not create a backlash that will give scientists the opportunity to explain the real issues? Are they just trying to delay the inevitable?

Or maybe they are just trying to create demand by turning people away. Now why would they be so desperate to create a demand?

David Stanton Wrote:

What do they think is going to happen when they finally release the movie? Do they really think that their propaganda will not create a backlash that will give scientists the opportunity to explain the real issues?

While they might be more worried than before about the movie being a flop, I don’t think that money was ever the chief motive. When it comes to negative reaction from mainstream science, however, pseudoscience almost can never lose. I think they want the negative reaction of scientists, which often tend to be self-defeating, either in terms of bad-mouthing religion or by just sounding defensive. While PZ Myers has been quite restrained in his reaction, they are certainly counting on some of his fans to be less restrained. Then they can pull the usual “hysterical ‘Darwinists’” garbage.

After all the free screenings to sympathetic audiences - who’s left to actually buy a ticket?

Can you just imagine the movie going crowd actually choosing to watch this? The only people interested are the committed creationists (who have now seen it) and the committed atheists (who would rather not transfer any of their hard earned shekels to the likes of Mathis & Stein)

Ah, I hadn’t seen that. Thanks for the information.

Frank J said: I admit to being more cynical than most, but do you really think that the magnet-wearing, “no chemicals” juice-chugging, horoscope reading crowd is going to think that the “big bad nerd conspiracy” won this round?

Good advertising involves being kind to your detractors. In this very public situation the best way to defuse the perceived threat was to face it head on. There is reality and perception, dealing with perception is much more difficult and an open, honest, and friendly attitude is always best.

Delta Pi Gamma (Scientia et Fermentum)

Don’t pay to see this movie.

See it for free.

It is just a propaganda movie, another From Darwin to Hitler. Enough people have seen it to know that it isn’t very good.

It is destined to be shown at fundie churches, the various Xian TV stations, and to go to DVD, YouTube, and BitTorrent sooner rather than later.

As propaganda, whether they make money or not is not important to them. And I wouldn’t want my money going to these clowns.

I don’t think that we should be making a strong claim about this based on what we’ve heard so far.

Modulo the fact that we now can blame PZ (ahh, political blame games) for an eventual faulty identification, I tend to agree. That goes towards conspiracy theories (such as the movie itself begging to be “EXPELLED” for any trivial reason to pervert later) as well. They should certainly be discussed but should have the usual qualifiers to discourage spin aside from the usual empty creo quote mining.

Anyway, I’m a bit surprised and annoyed that there hasn’t been a video “wedge” leak yet. Maybe the producers don’t think well on their feet, but they may be good at covering their asse(t)s.

wamba:

I don’t think it is certain that the Harvard/XVIVO animation is the exact one used in the film. There is a similar animation associated with the “Unlocking the Mystery of Life” IDC flick. At least, I haven’t heard of someone who could make a positive differentiation between the two opine on which one is used in “Expelled”. While PZ could make that identification on sight, he wasn’t the person admitted to the screening.

PZ has made that identification:

… on a DVD that they were giving away at a table at the screening*. …

*By the way, another interesting thing is on the DVD. They’ve got excerpts from the Inner Life video. Creationists are certainly drawn to stealing that work, aren’t they?

I’m kind of ignorant of the legalities involved, but would this make the Expelled producers the target of a copyright lawsuit? If so, would suing them for copyright infringement be a good thing?

Harold,

Fundamentalist “dittoheads” do not need “Expelled” to convince them that “Darwinism” is both wrong and evil. The producers are also targeting the “jury’s still out” segment that considers itself to be open-minded (though usually to the point of their brains falling out). That includes the ~20% that claims to accept evolution (or what they think is evolution) yet has been sold on “it’s only fair to teach the controversy.”

I have met a lot of people far to the left of me who will uncritically swallow anything negative said about scientists, including the usual sound bites against evolution and “evolutionists.” And at the same time, uncritically swallow any feel-good sound bites by “alternatives,” including how they are “expelled” by the “orthodoxy.”

Sure, many natural and synthetic compounds are toxic, but that’s not the point. People, including creationsts, tend to uncritically believe any “no chemicals” hype without the slighest clue of relative risk, or how well the product was tested.

Frank J -

This thread is dead, but anyway, with the constant caveat that our disagreements are superficial and our agreements deep, here’s why you’re mildly wrong in your comments above.

For full disclosure, let me tell what my political beliefs are. I am an extreme moderate who basically believes that the US should adopt progressive policies that are already working well in Canada and Australia, and who strongly supports full human rights for everyone. For that reason I am labelled as a “liberal”, or even more laughably, “leftist”, by the US media. (*But generally regarded as a moderate in person, in any part of the country I have lived in, by most people, including many conservatives*.) Many of the beliefs which I was considered a “whacko” for holding twenty years ago, such as strong support for full rights for my gay fellow citizens and strong support for a rational health care system, are now quite “mainstream”.

My brother is in the arts, and I have always had an interest in that area, so I have had my share of tussles with opponents of animal research or extreme advocates of “alternative medicine” nonsense.

However, only one type of person is a systemic threat to science, and that type of person is an authoritarian. I don’t care if some guy believes in UFOs flown by spiritual creatures, the healing power of crystal/astrology-based medicine, or the like, as long as he doesn’t try to force his views on me.

Authoritarians gravitate to the most extreme version of the “winning” side. Soviet authoritarians were ardent communists. In the current US millieu, however, authoritarian personalities are attracted to the religious right and its associated party like iron filings to a powerful magnet.

Evolution denial in public schools is only one star in an obnoxious constellation. Climate change denial, HIV denial, “moral” opposition to contraception and protection from STDs, compromising the Hubble telescope (the obvious unstated reason, in my view, is because it bothers YECers), and more, are all concentrated on the right of the political spectrum.

Someday an authoritarian movement with egalitarian economic policies may arise, and then we may have to worry about “the left”, but for now it’s a non-issue.

Fundamentalist “dittoheads” do not need “Expelled” to convince them that “Darwinism” is both wrong and evil.

Nevertheless, there’s good money in repeating it to them over and over again.

The producers are also targeting the “jury’s still out” segment that considers itself to be open-minded (though usually to the point of their brains falling out). That includes the ~20% that claims to accept evolution (or what they think is evolution) yet has been sold on “it’s only fair to teach the controversy.”

You’d think that’s what they’d do, and it’s what they’d do if their sincere highest motivation was to spread the word, but Frank, obviously, it isn’t what they’re doing. Ben Stein, a well-known right winger, is the narrator, and the film is being targeted at right wing church groups. They’re pretty overtly using a strategy that will associate the film with the “religious”/Limbaugh right, thus maximizing revenues. It maximizes revenues because “true believers” will go to see it out of loyalty and for the constant reinforcement it takes to maintain their cognitive dissonance at a tolerable level. A bad, boring, documentary won’t attract anyone else.