Expelled Exposed: The Untold Sequel - Nancey Murphy

One minor correction – Crocker’s slides weren’t made avaiable per se, the images over at TinyFrog are stills from the “Coral Ridge Hour” show you mention. So, ironically, she must have supplied them to the show as examples of how innocuous her materials were and how good a teacher she was.

Obviously she flunked on both counts.

PZ, ‘tis an excellent post. I’ve quoted it in brief reminders elsewhere, especially over at Amazon.com, merely to demonstrate yet another example of the Disco Tute’s Fascist behavior.

Nancey Murphy, a religious scholar at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, Calif., said she faced a campaign to get her fired because she expressed the view that intelligent design was not only poor theology, but “so stupid, I don’t want to give them my time.”

Murphy, who believes in evolution, said she had to fight to keep her job after one of the founding members of the intelligent design movement, legal theorist Phillip Johnson, called a trustee at the seminary and tried to get her fired.

Biochemist Terry M. Gray was tried and convicted of heresy in the mid 90’s by the Orthodox Presbyterian Church for daring to suggest that humans have animal ancestors in a review… wait for it… of Phillip Johnson’s book Darwin on Trial (1991).

Here is Gray’s link page to that case.

Never heard of the OPC. It is a small fundie splinter group, 28,000 members. The main Presbyterian group has no problem with evolution.

A heresy trial in the 20th century! It would be funny if it wasn’t so Dark Ages malevolent.

wikipedia OPC:

The Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC) is a small conservative Presbyterian denomination located primarily in the United States. It was founded by conservative members of the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America (PCUSA) who strongly objected to the pervasive Modernist theology during the 1930s (see Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy). Led by J. Gresham Machen, who had helped found Westminster Theological Seminary, the church attempted to preserve historic Calvinism within a Presbyterian structure. The name signifies its professed adherence to orthodox Christian teachings; it is not related to any branch of Eastern Christianity.

The main group, PCUS, with 2.3 million members supported evolution in 1969.

Evolution Statement In light of recent developments regarding the teaching of the Theory of Evolution in public schools, the Office of Theology and Worship offers the following, the Presbyterian Church U.S. 1969 GA-approved theological statement on the subject.

EVOLUTION AND THE BIBLE Primary Reference: GA Minutes 1969: 59-62 Denomination: PCUS

Conclusion from the Study

Neither Scripture, our Confession of Faith, nor our Catechisms, teach the Creation of man by the direct and immediate acts of God so as to exclude the possibility of evolution as a scientific theory.

Murphy, who believes in evolution, said she had to fight to keep her job after one of the founding members of the intelligent design movement, legal theorist Phillip Johnson, called a trustee at the seminary and tried to get her fired.

having seen Johnson pop in here on rare occasions, I wonder if he will deign to defend himself on this?

…and I always thought Phil was such a nice guy.

http://www.expelledexposed.com/

Wow. This is my former school, and I took a class from Murphy. Having taken a number of classes there, I’m just shocked that any of the administration or facutly would have an issue with evolution. I would never have suspected it. From some students, yes- but not from administration and faculty. The general impression given in classes (though the topic rarely comes up, of course) is quite the opposite.

I found another similar example in Howard Van Till. See: More irony from the ID creationist crowd

…having seen Johnson pop in here on rare occasions, I wonder if he will deign to defend himself on this?

Phillip Johnson doesn’t need to. PZ Myers has already proved Johnson 100% correct. Take a look:

“It’s the Darwinists who hold the power in academia and who threaten the professional status and livelihoods of anyone who disagrees,” Johnson said. “They feel to teach anything but their orthodoxy is an act of professional treason.”

(PZ sez) “Our only problem is that we aren’t martial enough, or vigorous enough, or loud enough, or angry enough. The only appropriate responses should involve some form of righteous fury, much butt-kicking, and the public firing and humiliation of some teachers, many schoolboard members, and vast numbers of sleazy far-right politicians.”

Case closed, baby!!!

FL

In fact, let’s take things a bit further (Because PZ does.). You ask about Johnson coming here to “defend” himself. But you need to ask about, ahem, somebody else doing so WAY before you even begin to ask about Johnson.

I say, screw the polite words and careful rhetoric. It’s time for scientists to break out the steel-toed boots and brass knuckles, and get out there and hammer on the lunatics and idiots.

These are not Johnson’s words, if you’ve ever read any of his books. So whose words are they.…? Oh, but you already know, don’t you? We all do.

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So here’s a scientist, Mike Gene, who offered the following response to that stuff. You might like it.

Ouch. One can only imagine all the real victims of steel-toed boots, brass knuckles, and hammers, who read this call for action and had to relive their violent past.

In our Global Village, those of us who strive to promote Enlightenment and Civilized values stress Peace, Tolerance, and Fairness. Certainly there is plenty of room at humanity’s table for all sorts of viewpoints.

I’m worried that Dr. Myers is unintentionally betraying our efforts to promote these values with his reliance on metaphors of violence.

When metaphors of violence are used, they only encourage a like response and the cycle of violent language continues, adding to our Culture of Violence.

I would plead with Dr. Myers to consider the more enlightened approach of using non-violent metaphors.

Meanwhile, we see the real deal. Johnson’s statement is correct.

FL ignores conveniently the context in which PZ made these statements. He believes that as scientists we should not hold back when we are confronted with scientific ignorance such as Intelligent Design. This has nothing to do with the livelihoods of scientists, but all with good science.

Rudi Boa was stabbed with a knife during an argument with a creo. Unfortunately, it was a real knife not a rhetorical one. He was killed.

Evolution vs creation row ends in stabbing By Adam Bennett | December 14, 2007

A FRUIT-picking trip to southern New South Wales ended in the death of a Scottish backpacker who became embroiled in a bizarre row about creationism and evolution.

English backpacker Alexander Christian York, 33, was today sentenced to a maximum of five years jail for the manslaughter of Scotsman Rudi Boa in January last year.

Mr Boa, 28, died on January 27 after being stabbed by York at the Blowering Holiday Park, near Tumut. continues

FL -

“Our only problem is that we aren’t martial enough, or vigorous enough, or loud enough, or angry enough. The only appropriate responses should involve some form of righteous fury, much butt-kicking, and the public firing and humiliation of some teachers, many schoolboard members, and vast numbers of sleazy far-right politicians.”

I say, screw the polite words and careful rhetoric. It’s time for scientists to break out the steel-toed boots and brass knuckles, and get out there and hammer on the lunatics and idiots.

You present these statements as “evidence” that “Darwinists” have all the power. It’s obviously the opposite. These are statements of frustration.

Furthermore, I can easily prove that the the statements by PZ Meyers which you quote, with which I agree very strongly despite disagreeing with some of his “anti-religion” diatribes, are rhetorical. It’s easy. Neither PZ Meyers nor anyone else is actually, physically kicking the butt of anyone, with hob-nailed boots or anything else.

If I thought that PZ was advocating physical violence, bwahahahah, I would oppose these statements. But I very strongly support them, because I think he is advocating vigorous public defense of legitimate science and civil rights.

There is no legal limit on what politicians can “believe”, but I certainly very strongly encourage people to vote against science-denying politicians.

I certainly support your right to live, believe, and worship as you see fit, but I also, to repeat myself, strongly agree with firing and/or suing those who would introduce “intelligent design” into a taxpayer-funded classroom. It’s really very simple. I support your right to live, believe, and worship as you see fit, but also my own right to do those things. I won’t preach my religion at your kids on your tax dollar, and you won’t do that to me, either. Otherwise we have a major problem.

On another issue, we previously saw that a certain Mr. Paul Mirecki turned out to be The Totally Wrong Poster Boy for Raven’s current parano—-ummm, current position regarding Raven’s allegation of a “serious reign of terror by Xian fundie terrorists.”

“I want to be clear that I personally find Professor Mirecki’s e-mail comments repugnant and vile. They do not represent my views nor the views of this university. People of all faiths are valued at KU, and campus ministries are an important part of life at the university. “Dr. Mirecki has made the right decision by his withdrawal from the course. He has a right to free speech but he has to realize the revelation of his past e-mails has tainted the environment for his course. He insulted both our students and the university’s public, and he misrepresented beliefs of KU’s faculty and staff.”

—Dr. Robert Hemenway, Chancellor of the University of Kansas

******

But we never did say anything about the late Mr. Rudi Boa being yet another example of Wrong Poster Boyhood.

So, read this:

The incident occurred after the pair and Mr Boa’s girlfriend Gillian Brown had spent the night drinking at the Star Hotel in Tumut, and an argument broke out between Mr Boa and York about creationism and evolution.

When Mr York and the couple returned to the caravan park separately later that night, a scuffle broke out between the two men.

Mr York, who was making dinner at the time, had a knife in his hand and stabbed Mr Boa in the chest during the brief altercation.

– theage.com.au

So, rather than a being a pure innocent evolutionist martyr vicitimized by the evil Xian terrorist boogyman, it turns out that evolutionist Mr. Boa did a bunch of drinking with his drinking buddy, and they got into an argument, and the argument got out of hand, which is what sometimes happens when people spend too much time drinking.

******

With both the Rudi Boas and Paul Mirecki cases, one has to ask why Raven continues to leave out certain important details that clearly contradict the “serious reign of terror by Xian fundie terrorists” accusation.

But I do agree with him on one point.

People have seen this before and might be getting tired of it.

FL :)

FL takes everything said by PZ Myers literally because that is how he reads the Bible. Both approaches are equally stupid.

FL:

FL = Fafarman, Larry?

Clever indeed! But nope. There’s only one FL, and it’s me dude!!

Side note for Raven: go ahead and send that laundry list of doomed darwinists to NCSE. But do NOT be surpris’d if they put some good hearty editing on it before they let that thing be associated with their good (heh-heh) name!!

FL

And that is what FL is reduced to after being totally whipped by the rest of us here. I guess that means we need never take him seriously ever again! Victims of persecution are victims of persecution, and one’s personal views of their habits or attitudes are irrelevant. Only FL’s bigotry makes him think otherwise.

Oh, FL, how soon could you start working for GEICO’s advertising department?

I’ve been speaking with my old professor, Nancey Murphy, over at Fuller, on email, and she’s confirmed my suspicions. The Washington Post article was not entirely precise. To whit:

That I came close to being fired is an exaggeration. Philip Johnson phoned a powerful trustee and complained about me. The trustees discussed my “case” and there was so much support from the administration that the issue dropped there. So it’s not Fuller, but rather the ID people who wanted me out.

Later she stated

Fuller has always been very supportive, even though the events caused them to lose major donations! I will be instituting a new course in the fall that deals more directly with science and theology issues.

So, as I suspected, this was not something the Fuller faculty, administration, or trustees were behind. Fuller’s just not the kind of institution to have such a narrow view as supporting Intelligent Design, to the extent that the courses cover anything scientific. But I am excited to hear that there will be shortly a course at Fuller that will be more directly looking at theology as it pertains to science, and presumably, considering the instructor, evolution.