Upgrades

| 88 Comments

I’ve upgraded the software and plugins on this site. Some files have changed and you may need to clear your cache to get the new files. If you have problems commenting, clear your browser cache.

The most noticeable new feature is client-side validation of comment format. If your comment is not properly formed, changes will be made to it and you will be notified of the differences before you submit. It’s not perfect or smart, but it gets the job done. I will implement “give me original comment” and “don’t validate” options if it becomes a burden to anyone.

88 Comments

Check, check 1.

“Your comment submisson failed for the following reasons: Invalid request”

I’m seeing an interesting “update” button that appears between the comment count and “leave a comment” , but it disappears just before the whole page finishes rendering.

Firefox 3.01 WinXP SP2

fresh cache

possible clash: Noscript 1.8.0.2

Hey, that one went through when I disabled “redirect remover” actually. That usually doesn’t apply to submission buttons. It shouldn’t.

And now the update button is below my comment, presumably below the entire thread? That’s a nifty lil thing.

Testing. New paragraph. Another new paragraph. Comment submission or preview failed: Invalid format detected. Please review the following corrections that have been made to your comment. Note: Apparently blank lines are not being converted to paragraphs.

Mike Elzinga said: Testing. New paragraph. Another new paragraph. Comment submission or preview failed: Invalid format detected. Please review the following corrections that have been made to your comment. Note: Apparently blank lines are not being converted to paragraphs.

Testing! You have to hit Preview twice and then the Submit button. Every time!

Dale Husband said:

Mike Elzinga said: Testing. New paragraph. Another new paragraph. Comment submission or preview failed: Invalid format detected. Please review the following corrections that have been made to your comment. Note: Apparently blank lines are not being converted to paragraphs.

Testing! You have to hit Preview twice and then the Submit button. Every time!

Exactly! Here is another attempt at a new paragraph after clearing cookies. Nope. Same problem.

The update button has been there for a while.

Test newlines

Newlines work here, with Firefox 3 on Windows vista.

What browser, version, and OS are you using?

As I explained when we were testing this out on my blog, validation is completely dependent on your browser. The comment is not sent to PT until it is validated.

Therefore, when reporting bugs I need to know what you are running.

This is the expected behavior:

A well-formed comment should go through fine, either with preview or a direct submission.

A comment that doesn’t obey XHTML semantics will cause your browser to stop the preview/submission. Your browser will tidy the comment and report the differences between your original comment and the tidy, so you can adjust the tidy if necessary. You should then be able to submit it.

If you are being told that valid comments are invalid, please give me all the details possible on what you are trying to do.

Aerik said:

Hey, that one went through when I disabled “redirect remover” actually. That usually doesn’t apply to submission buttons. It shouldn’t.

And now the update button is below my comment, presumably below the entire thread? That’s a nifty lil thing.

We’re using a bunch of javascript and Web 2.0 stuff on the site now, so NoScript can break a lot of things if you are not careful.

I just realized that I left out the “Check Spelling” feature during the upgrade. It is now in the templates, and will appear on the pages as they are rebuilt/commented on. I’ll run another full site rebuild next weekend.

Well, let’s check this thing.

And Aerik, I had much the same problem previously (because I had downgraded NoScript’s whack-a-script messages).

Bad XHMTL: bold italics

… it works like a beaut!

Reed, seeing how much (excellent) work you put into this, isn’t it time to cut the site’s spell checker? Dunno about other browsers, but Firefox provides (real time) checking.

Btw, it may even have an XHMTL checker plugin, for all I know. (Quick browsing shows at least one HTML checker, but on whole page basis I think.) This integrated one may offer better functionality though.

[Alas, as I’m a non-user my opinion isn’t carrying much weight. Perhaps the site’s checker is larger, and correct, on biology. I have to train mine, and with a non-biologist at the keys I have a lousy ‘expert’ on the job…]

On upgrades: any thought on going to a registration requirement for posting? It is normal for forums and does a lot to slow down malicious posters (who have to register with a new email every time they get run out) while being little problem for legitimate posters (who only have to do it once).

White Rabbit (Greg Goebel) http://www.vectorsite.net/gblog.html

Just a test, disregard. GVG

If your comment is not properly formed, changes will be made to it

What if the logic in my comment isn’t properly formed? Can you make me seem smart? Please?

I noticed in posting a comment just now in another thread that your handy-dandy parser called me on putting two spaces following a period (full stop). Rather than argue, I let it have its way, knowing I could comment on it here. I know that HTML seems to like removing what it considers to be extraneous spaces, but wikipedia seems to think that two spaces is the appropriate method: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_stop I happen to agree, if for no other reason than for clarity, which is something we should strive for in writing. Just my too sense (how about that for weird grammar? Let’s see what your parser does with it shall we?!)

Naked Bunny with a Whip said: If your comment is not properly formed, changes will be made to it What if the logic in my comment isn’t properly formed? Can you make me seem smart? Please?

Or if you sign in with a name like, say, “jobby,” could it convert snarky comments into Considerate Christian™ comments?

Paul Burnett said:

Naked Bunny with a Whip said: If your comment is not properly formed, changes will be made to it What if the logic in my comment isn’t properly formed? Can you make me seem smart? Please?

Or if you sign in with a name like, say, “jobby,” could it convert snarky comments into Considerate Christian™ comments?

Would this be a variant of the software they use over at Uncommon Dissent?

Paul Burnett said:

Naked Bunny with a Whip said: If your comment is not properly formed, changes will be made to it What if the logic in my comment isn’t properly formed? Can you make me seem smart? Please?

Or if you sign in with a name like, say, “jobby,” could it convert snarky comments into Considerate Christian™ comments?

Seems to me any comment that is less than complete worship of Darwinism is consideted ‘snarky’.

Scientists are objective. Not pre-judging.

Ban the boob.

We are presently working on a more appropriate manner to address Bobby’s abuse of service attacks. Please stand by.

David Stanton said:

Ban the boob.

Testing, Testing, number 9, number 9

Did anyone notice that someone made the biggest policy change of their administration without hardly a comment from the media. See: Timetable for withdrawal.

Testing again. Jobby sighted, SECURITY BREACH!!!

On my browser, Firefox 3 / Vista, double spaces don’t cause a problem for the validator. What browser are you using?

However, using two spaces, which is appropriate for writing, is not going to show up any differently than one space on the website.

sentence one. sentence two. sentence three.

paragraph two.

Reed A. Cartwright Wrote:

Therefore, when reporting bugs I need to know what you are running.



I’m using Internet Explorer 7.0.5730.11, Windows XP, Service Pack 3.

I also have to use tags to get paragraphs.

Have to hit Preview twice before submitting.

I wish to report a downgrade: the main page no longer shows which thread “Recent Comments” belongs to.

Ian said:

two spaces following a period (full stop)

I’ve never heard of double spacing or full stops before, and the short Wikipedia example seemed harder to read due to uneven word spacing. Punctuation is, after all, contextual and not necessarily noticed at high reading speeds.

But the Wikipedia article referred to some empirical research or surveys (didn’t check) that presumably indicates it is helpful for readers. Unfortunately the software industry doesn’t acknowledge this.

I’ve confirmed the problem with IE, and I think I know where it is. I’ll work on a solution later this afternoon.

Torbjörn Larsson, OM said:

I wish to report a downgrade: the main page no longer shows which thread “Recent Comments” belongs to.

It’s in a tool tip if you hover over the [read more] link.

I’ve never heard of double spacing or full stops before, and the short Wikipedia example seemed harder to read due to uneven word spacing. Punctuation is, after all, contextual and not necessarily noticed at high reading speeds.

It’s the English standard. That’s what I was always taught.

But the Wikipedia article referred to some empirical research or surveys (didn’t check) that presumably indicates it is helpful for readers. Unfortunately the software industry doesn’t acknowledge this.

I know LaTeX has a bunch of logic for determining and using full-stop spaces.

Test:

For some reason, hitting Preview randomly moves the target="_blank" attribute in front of the href in my link tags and then has the gall to tell me “ur doin it rong.” If I accept the correction and hit Preview again, it moves them back around and still tells me I’m making a mistake.

Something up with the linking process?
Using Firefox 2 on Ubuntu Gutsy, without the NoScripts extension.

Why are you using target="_blank" tags in your comments? They are not supported and get stripped by KwickXML.

Well, that posted, so it must be the second hypothesis.

I have something interesting for you Henry!

http://www.opposingviews.com/

Were We Created By Design? Discovery Institute vs. National Center for Science Education (About 4 tabs down)

Stacy

Oops! I forgot to mention that there is a poll there.

“Does Intelligent Design have merit?”

You need to hire some ‘creationists’ to help you with your site. You seem to be over your head.

Why is PT silent while Palin and the creationists are getting away with murder claiming that she didn’t “really push” creationism in Alaska, as though she had to do something other than voice support for it? FactCheck has decided, for no readily apparent reason, that since Palin didn’t do something that remains undefined (demand a law, teach a biology class, donate textbooks, who knows) she didn’t “really” support teaching creationism. All the newspapers are dutifully repeating their conclusion. There’s something fishy going on since any moron would realize that all the chief executive has to do is voice support, which she has done many times. What the hell is going on?

PT is connected to a non-profit. We have to be careful when dealing with news about political candidates so as not to hurt that non-profit. We’re working on something, but have opted to wait to see if new information gets revealed.

PT is connected to a non-profit. We have to be careful when dealing with news about political candidates so as not to hurt that non-profit.

Seems absurd (IANAL). If she “didn’t really do anything” when she voiced her support, can’t PT also “not really do anything” by voicing disapproval for a Creationist candidate?

This is nuts. Any NCSE affiliated email list is also muzzled. With “teach the controversy” turning into a widely accepted political compromise PT is going to have to be able to discuss political candidates.

I am not computer saive at all, so all this talk is way over my head. However, for some guy ( or girl) to post a comment about PT having trouble is absurd. He (or she) must be jealous of all the expertise shown on ths site.

I didn’t say that we had to say silent. I’m just saying that we are tying to be careful about when/how we mention candidates stances on education.

Lots of our crew members talk politics on their personal blogs that are not affiliated with us. Keep up with them, and you will be well served.

So what’s the verdict on the new validation feature?

Reed A. Cartwright asked:

“So what’s the verdict on the new validation feature?”

I’m finding now, whenever I try to either Preview or Submit, if there are tags of any kind, it gets me to a white screen on which the stuff is printed, but there are no instructions on where to go from there.

This is also the case with the tags that are automatically placed in the comment to which I am replying.

If I back up and hit Submit, I am sent to the same screen. No instructions or buttons to Submit or Preview. I have to remove all tags in order to Preview or Submit.

Otherwise nothing Posts or Previews.

Mike Elzinga said:

I’m finding now, whenever I try to either Preview or Submit, if there are tags of any kind, it gets me to a white screen on which the stuff is printed, but there are no instructions on where to go from there.

This is also the case with the tags that are automatically placed in the comment to which I am replying.

If I back up and hit Submit, I am sent to the same screen. No instructions or buttons to Submit or Preview. I have to remove all tags in order to Preview or Submit.

Otherwise nothing Posts or Previews.

Let me try.

Italics, then linebreak.
Strong, then a new paragraph.

Link

Preview works fine here.

By the way, any preference about using ‘a’ instead of ‘url’?

Mike Elzinga said:

I’m finding now, whenever I try to either Preview or Submit, if there are tags of any kind, it gets me to a white screen on which the stuff is printed, but there are no instructions on where to go from there.

That screen shows up because javascript threw an error and terminated early. Things still got submitted, and what you see is the response that javascript would have caught and inserted into the submission page.

I fixed the bug you were encountering. Apparently for some tags, IE adds extra attributes which was causing my script to crash. Use ctrl-R to get the latest files.

Wheels said:

By the way, any preference about using ‘a’ instead of ‘url’?

‘a’ has been supported for a long time. We are using a different spam control technique that doesn’t force us to abandon ‘a’. ‘url’ is still supported.

Testing using a copy/paste from Microsoft Word.

Mike Wrote:

Here is a quote tag with spaces around the attributes equal sign.

Mike Wrote:

Here is a quote without spaces around the attributes equal sign.

Mike Wrote:

Here is a blockquote with spaces around the attributes equal sign.

Mike Wrote:

Here is a blockquote without spaces around the attributes equal sign.

Here is a link to NCSE with spaces around the attributes equal sign.

Here is a link to NCSE without spaces around the attributes equal sign.

The only other issue I have seen actually has something to do with copy/pasting from Microsoft Word; the quotation marks in the attributes = “value” part of the tag have to be redone when pasting into the comment box. Somehow, the parser doesn’t recognize the quotation marks from Word when they are in the attributes. Elsewhere in the comment they seem to be ok.

Don’t bother to fix it. It’s not a serious issue. One can always use something like Notepad to compose comments offline.

When I tried the attributes with spaces around the equal sign, I got an error, but after pressing Preview again, everything was fixed (the spaces were removed).

Looks like it is working the way you want. I like it.

If you have autoquotes turned on in Word, then it will replace straight quotes with curly quotes. It is not possible to define attributes using curly quotes. Use a normal text editor instead of Word.

Reed A. Cartwright said:

If you have autoquotes turned on in Word, then it will replace straight quotes with curly quotes. It is not possible to define attributes using curly quotes. Use a normal text editor instead of Word.

Yeah; I figured it was something like that. I shouldn’t have even mentioned it. I was simply retyping the quotes after I pasted the comment. No big deal.

This is a test of copy/paste from Notepad.

Mike Wrote:

This is a quote tag, no spaces around the atributes equal sign.

OK; that works.

This is a test of copy/paste from WordPad

Mike Wrote:

This is a blockquote tag, no spaces around the attributes equal sign.

OK; that works also.

So both Notepad and WordPad are good text editors for offline composition. They produce no unexpected character conversions that bomb the KwickXML syntax.

Testing if it’s still compatible with CoComment.

Also, do you kill the [cite] tag in blockquotes? Test.

Invalid request again. Disabling coComment here.

Damnit.

what is cocomment?

What cite tag?

A Stumble for your efforts :)

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This page contains a single entry by Reed A. Cartwright published on September 7, 2008 7:54 PM.

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