Some Neil Shubin video

| 32 Comments

Neil Shubin has been out and about speaking on behalf of his recent book, The Universe Within, in a variety of venues. He summarizes his theme in this video. And as dessert, there’s this short one on Tiktaalik from the Royal Institution channel.

32 Comments

Thanks! I loved “Your Inner Fish” and I’m reading “the Universe Within” now.

inb4 “lines of reasoning”

Wow, what a coincidence that fossil is!

It’s coincidence all the way down, too, for the “new science” of ID.

Glen Davidson

The Hokeae Pokeae Roseae

Ya put your half fin in,

ya put your half hand out,

ya put your half fin in,

and ya mutate all about.

Iso’late yer populations,

and ya speciate around,

that’s what it’s all about.

LOL!

This comment has been moved to The Bathroom Wall.

This comment has been moved to The Bathroom Wall.

Since booby Byers showed up here, it should be known that that old fraud Duane Gish died 2 days ago. Here’s a guy with a PhD in organic chemistry who spent his entire career peddling YEC nonsense. As was said about Civil War general Henry Halleck, Gish was a vast emptiness surrounded by an education.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duane_Gish

SLC said:

Since booby Byers showed up here, it should be known that that old fraud Duane Gish died 2 days ago.

You know, I don’t normally speak ill of the dead, but I hope that in those last few moments, as night closed in around Duane, and he realized that the bright tunnel was just an oxygen starved hallucination, and the angels were in fact not coming, he had just enough time left to realize it and form one last thought.

“Oh, Fu-“.

Forgive me for hoping that he found forgiveness.

Dave Luckett said:

Forgive me for hoping that he found forgiveness.

Eventually, Dave, eventually.

First, realization about how much damage he did to American science education, then forgiveness.

Oh, certainly. The one necessarily implies the other.

There’s a rumor that Duane Gish suddenly recanted creationism on his deathbed, and died a happy and intellectually honest man.

It’s interesting that Robert Byers commented on this thread. I saw a comment somewhere else that pointed out that most of what professional creationists do is declare that popular media things that mention evolution are wrong. There are people insane enough to pay Casey Luskin to do that. It’s also mostly what the amateur creationists do. That and rush to the defense of “big name” ID/creationists.

harold said:

There’s a rumor that Duane Gish suddenly recanted creationism on his deathbed, and died a happy and intellectually honest man.

I heard that! I believe it was a Mrs. Hope, a distant relative of his, who was with him in those last hours who reported his final doubts about his life’s work.

Eventually, Dave, eventually. First, realization about how much damage he did to American science education, then forgiveness.

Perhaps a visit to purgatory would be in order. Or maybe that realization of the damage he did would be purgatory.

I am saddened to think that for 40 years he misled people, spreading falsehoods, for righteousness sake in the name of the religion he so fervently believed in. People who lie to promote their religion which is supposed to espouse truthfulness - only possible if truth is not some Absolute property of the Universe, but a concept invented and defined by Man, twisted to evil use by those with darkness in their hearts, and used for good by those with virtue in their hearts.

What lasting damage has he done? Time will tell.

What lasting good will we leave behind?

Just Bob said:

harold said:

There’s a rumor that Duane Gish suddenly recanted creationism on his deathbed, and died a happy and intellectually honest man.

I heard that! I believe it was a Mrs. Hope, a distant relative of his, who was with him in those last hours who reported his final doubts about his life’s work.

I heard that Mrs. Hope was not only his relative, but also his personal secretary. There’s even a recording, the Hope disc, video and audio. In it Gish seems to have felt like a Berkeley lad again, open and free and skeptical once more, just learning to canter.

I suspect that heaven and hell, if they exist, would alike consist of the sensations of others as they experienced the consequences of one’s own actions. But this is wandering far afield.

Karen S. said:

Perhaps a visit to purgatory would be in order.

If the afterlife were just, Duane would have to spend hundreds of thousands of hours tutoring students who never learned science in the classes he thwarted all these years.

Special bonus purgatory redemption points would go to tutoring the particular once bright and promising students who would have gone on to accomplish great things for humanity, had they not been dissuaded from a career in science by the likes of Gish.

Dave Luckett said: But this is wandering far afield.

Personally, I like Terry Prachett’s version of the afterlife.

Shubin’s Your Inner Fish is one of my favorite popular level science books. Looking forward to reading The Universe Within.

Regarding Duane “Galloping” Gish, sympathies for his immediate family. This said, in many ways Gish was no better than the creationist Dover Pennsylvania school board members Bill Buckingham and Alan Bonsell that were caught lying under oath. Here’s a 1988 debate in which Gish’s fibs were blatantly exposed in front of a largely creationist audience.

Rikki_Tikki_Taalik said:

inb4 “lines of reasoning”

Yep, Rikki called it right on the money.

PT’s lovable trolls can be so predictable.

It’s really a damned shame about Gish. I mean, there are two possibilities. 1) That nothing he believed in (religion-wise) was real and he wasted his life. 2) That heaven/god is real and he’s going to be punished for all eternity for breaking the commandments and spreading lies to promote truth.

Either way, his life was wasted and that’s what is a shame.

stevaroni said:

Dave Luckett said: But this is wandering far afield.

Personally, I like Terry Prachett’s version of the afterlife.

I prefer Philip José Farmer’s “Riverworld” version. Let us all hope that in addition to recanting his position on creationism, Gish’s dying words were (as all of ours should be) “See you on the Riverworld.”

Tenncrain said:

This said, in many ways Gish was no better than the creationist Dover Pennsylvania school board members Bill Buckingham and Alan Bonsell that were caught lying under oath. Here’s a 1988 debate in which Gish’s fibs were blatantly exposed in front of a largely creationist audience.

I think I have mentioned before on this forum that Gish used to show up unannounced in the biology class rooms in Kalamazoo, Michigan and harass the biology teachers in front of their students. This was back in the 1960s when he was working at the Upjohn Company (Upjohn was later bought out by Pharmacea which, in turn was bought out by Pfizer).

One of my good friends was a multi award winning biology teacher who also included evolution in her course; and she came in for some particularly harsh harassment from Gish. My last conversation with her was a few weeks before she died of cancer; and in that conversation, the pain of those encounters with Gish was still very evident, even though those events had occurred nearly forty years earlier. Gish was one cruel bastard with biology teachers.

Gish’s “people” and their churches are still politically active in the area; they have now turned their adulation toward Ken Ham.

But there is no question that Gish and Morris did tremendous damage before the science community got organized and started taking them down. Debating the creationists gave them far more leverage and “credibility” than they ever deserved; or earned on their own.

It’s a conundrum, Mike. Giving crackpots attention gives them the one thing they most desperately want. Ignoring them not only provokes shrill cries that scientists refuse to debate them on what they are pleased to call “evidence”, but it also has the same results as ignoring termites.

I confess I don’t know the answer.

Mike Elzinga said:

Tenncrain said:

This said, in many ways Gish was no better than the creationist Dover Pennsylvania school board members Bill Buckingham and Alan Bonsell that were caught lying under oath. Here’s a 1988 debate in which Gish’s fibs were blatantly exposed in front of a largely creationist audience.

I think I have mentioned before on this forum that Gish used to show up unannounced in the biology class rooms in Kalamazoo, Michigan and harass the biology teachers in front of their students. This was back in the 1960s when he was working at the Upjohn Company (Upjohn was later bought out by Pharmacea which, in turn was bought out by Pfizer).

One of my good friends was a multi award winning biology teacher who also included evolution in her course; and she came in for some particularly harsh harassment from Gish. My last conversation with her was a few weeks before she died of cancer; and in that conversation, the pain of those encounters with Gish was still very evident, even though those events had occurred nearly forty years earlier. Gish was one cruel bastard with biology teachers.

Gish’s “people” and their churches are still politically active in the area; they have now turned their adulation toward Ken Ham.

But there is no question that Gish and Morris did tremendous damage before the science community got organized and started taking them down. Debating the creationists gave them far more leverage and “credibility” than they ever deserved; or earned on their own.

He did this on Upjohn Company time?

Today that would be trespassing, and probably a violation of a lot of other local laws and regulations. Even in the 1960’s an adult hanging around a school during school hours would have been noticed. But let’s say that in a different time and place maybe the security and constitutional rights aspects of this were overlooked. That’s still an Upjohn employee, not at Upjohn, not making money for Upjohn, in the middle of a week day. Of course, in those different times, people did have something call a “lunch break”, and taking an hour would not have been considered all that unusual. Maybe he did it on “lunch break”. Still pretty sketchy.

Gish may have been fired from Upjohn. He was a professional creationist by 1971.

Dave Luckett said:

It’s a conundrum, Mike. Giving crackpots attention gives them the one thing they most desperately want. Ignoring them not only provokes shrill cries that scientists refuse to debate them on what they are pleased to call “evidence”, but it also has the same results as ignoring termites.

I confess I don’t know the answer.

You have to pick and choose which battle to fight, and which battle to ignore.

harold said:

He did this on Upjohn Company time?

I’ll move my reply over to the Gish thread.

Dave Luckett said:

It’s a conundrum, Mike. Giving crackpots attention gives them the one thing they most desperately want. Ignoring them not only provokes shrill cries that scientists refuse to debate them on what they are pleased to call “evidence”, but it also has the same results as ignoring termites.

I confess I don’t know the answer.

I’d say that the best strategy is to continue to give them attention, just not the kind of attention they want. What’s needed is to continually spotlight their fallacies, inconsistencies, and true motives, without simply giving them a platform upon which to grandstand and piggy-back on scientific authority.

In fact, it seems to me that the scientific community has already learned this lesson, at least in part. Creationists are rarely allowed live debates anymore, especially not with the big names, and when they are their opponents now come into them fully armed against their rhetorical tactics. The days where they could just Gish Gallop over the unprepared scientist are over. It’s becoming almost impossible for a cdesignproponentsist to make a claim anymore without it being almost immediately and thoroughly demolished, on multiple levels.

Overall, however, I think that it’s by opposing their educational and political machinations through agencies like the NCSE, and by directly confronting their lies online in fora like this, that the tide is turning. However slowly that may be.

Bhakti Niskama Shanta said:

Does Current Biology have the Misfortune of Owning an Unreliable Clock? http://scienceandscientist.org/Darw[…]iable-clock/

This crap was dumped on multiple threads, all completely off topic. Just some know-nothing wanna be looking for a fight. TIme for a dump to the bathroom wall.

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This page contains a single entry by Richard B. Hoppe published on March 6, 2013 10:40 AM.

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