Freshwater: Reconsideration denied

| 28 Comments

The Ohio Supreme Court today denied John Freshwater’s motion to reconsider his appeal of the decision to terminate him as a middle school science teacher in the Mt. Vernon City Schools. This brings to an end the involvement of the state courts in the affair. (I’m on a mobile and can’t post a link to the case page-someone can do so in a comment.)

Freshwater’s only remaining possibility is to convince the U.S. Supreme Court to grant cert. It’s not known whether he or the Rutherford Institute will attempt that.

28 Comments

Well hopefully this spells the end of this glorious saga.

Thanks Richard for your coverage of this debacle. Now hopefully you can take a break.

Yes, thanks Richard.

Dare I say it…book time!

;)

Here (pdf) is the very brief reconsideration denial document, and here (pdf) is the dissent of 3 of the judges, arguing that the decision allows for teachers to be fired for trivial reasons. The comment auto-formatting won’t let me post the case page for some reason, but it’s easy to find on the Ohio SC website.

From the dissent:

the only other basis for terminating Freshwater is the fact that he withdrew two books from the school library and kept then in his classroom—not for teaching purposes or for use in connection with the science curriculum, but rather for his own personal inspiration. This is not insubordinate conduct, nor does it establish good and just cause as required by R.C. 3319.16.

When he was told to remove his bible, and one of the library books was a bible, yes it very much does establish good grounds.

If my boss tells me to remove the NYT from my desk, and I do so…and then go down to the corner, buy another copy of the NYT, and put the new copy on my desk, that is clear and intentional insubordination.

What’s going to happen to Freshwater’s present career of suing? What’s he supposed to do, get a job, follow the law, practice religion on his own time?

Does some creationist whining actually end?

Glen Davidson

See this was always the problem. They should have busted the guy for illegally teaching creationism. They had him dead to rights. He admitted doing it. There were witnesses. Instead there was the slimy insubordination thing. Hopefully the Supreme Court won’t see this as an excuse to reexamine the case yet again. No matter what, he’s still guilty and should never be allowed in front of a class again.

When I saw “Freshwater” in bold type at the top I was thinking that this is getting quite stale. Do I dare hope that this is the end of it? Richard, you sure have a lot of patience.

I’ve just re-read Kevin Padian’s testemony at Dover; quintessential. If only all cases against stupidity could be so roundly rebuffed.

Great work Richard, I’ve followed this from the beginning.

Is it possibly finally over?

I am glad, but I’ll miss Dick’s excellent reportage. RBF, you need a new project!

RBH.

So sorry.

Well, hopefully this saga has finally come to an end.

Golly.

Thanks again for everything Dick! I suspect that this is not the end of the story however. The ending that I would like to see involves Freshwater moving to Kentucky and becoming a parking lot attendant at the Creation Museum. THEN you can write the book!

cmb said:

Thanks again for everything Dick! I suspect that this is not the end of the story however. The ending that I would like to see involves Freshwater moving to Kentucky and becoming a parking lot attendant at the Creation Museum. THEN you can write the book!

I think you mean “Science” director.

cmb said:

Thanks again for everything Dick! I suspect that this is not the end of the story however. The ending that I would like to see involves Freshwater moving to Kentucky and becoming a parking lot attendant at the Creation Museum. THEN you can write the book!

Of course, the ultimate in wishful thinking would be “the parking lot that used to be the Creation Museum”.

Kevin B said:

cmb said:

Thanks again for everything Dick! I suspect that this is not the end of the story however. The ending that I would like to see involves Freshwater moving to Kentucky and becoming a parking lot attendant at the Creation Museum. THEN you can write the book!

Of course, the ultimate in wishful thinking would be “the parking lot that used to be the Creation Museum”.

what a waste, I’m sure that building could be put to a good use; A REAL museum, a warehouse, a food bank, indoor paintball arena, something (anything) would be better than what it is currently being used for…

Richard Hoppe, I thought you may be interested in this. Freshwater friend and spokesperson “Coach” Dave Daubenmire is being considered for a coaching position at Lakewood HS near Hebron, Ohio. This is a public school! Somebody is sniffing around for controversy because this bit of non-news made the local FOX news broadcast yesterday. http://www.myfox28columbus.com/shar[…]-28803.shtml

Grey Wolf said:

Richard Hoppe, I thought you may be interested in this. Freshwater friend and spokesperson “Coach” Dave Daubenmire is being considered for a coaching position at Lakewood HS near Hebron, Ohio. This is a public school! Somebody is sniffing around for controversy because this bit of non-news made the local FOX news broadcast yesterday. http://www.myfox28columbus.com/shar[…]-28803.shtml

Interesting that Fox broke this news, and the story is quite decently done, but local Fox stations are often perfectly good at local news, and not to be confused with the national programming.

Here’s a quote from the article.

“Anybody that can help us improve the football season is definitely a plus,” said Michael Davidson, whose daughter is a cheerleader. “And I want to see prayer in our schools return.”

This is the kind of authoritarian imbecile who causes problems.

Even the first part of the quote is moronic. “Anybody that can help us improve the football season is definitely a plus”. Well, to begin with, the assumption that Daubenmire is more likely to do that is unfounded. How are his old schools doing without him? Was he a good coach, or just a coach at a large school with the ability to field a good team?

Putting that aside, I can think of many ways to improve a football team’s performance that are not definitely a plus. Steroids. Academically unqualified players. Etc.

But of course, this imbecile doesn’t want Daubenmire because of Daubenmire’s coaching skills. As he says “And I want to see prayer in our schools return.” Of course, legal prayer never left schools. Prayer is mandatory at many private religious schools. Private prayer is perfectly okay in public schools, as long as it doesn’t create the appearance of government favoritism for some particular version of religion.

What this guy wants is illegal prayer in public schools. And not just any illegal prayer, either. If Daubenmire were offering illegal Mormon, Jewish, or even Catholic prayer, this guy would be dead set against him. He wants Daubenmire because Daubenmire is a bullying jerk who will abuse a position of authority for force students into the right wing post-modern Evangelical version of illegal prayer.

And if Daubenmire is hired, that is what will happen. And then some student will rightfully sue for the violation of his rights. And then the district will be taken to the cleaners in court. And then they’ll try to get rid of Daubenmire. And then Daubenmire will lawyer up. He’ll lose in the end, but not before causing the wastage of massive amounts of a modest school district’s resources.

It’s utterly unbelievable. He’s been fired twice already for violating the law of the land. He’s open about his inclination to continue to do so.

Oh, by the way…why doesn’t Daubenmire try to coach at a religious school?

Here’s the main reason why these nuts always want to act out at a public school. It may be simpler than you think.

Religious schools already have their dogma and their hierarchy. Daubenmire and his ilk want to be Head Prophet of the Universe. If Coach shows up at some religious school, even some science-denying fundamentalist Bible camp school, it won’t be long before he runs afoul of their religious rules, and he knows it. But at a public school, he can be the only religion-pushing guy in town, as long as he can get away with it. That’s actually the real reason that narcissistic authoritarian wannabes gravitate to public schools. No competition from other religious “leaders”.

Harold, Daubie was recently fired by a Christian school. It’s not clear why, but there are some indications of in-fighting that led to his firing.

IOW, it looks like Harold’s last paragraph captures what happened to Daubie.

I don’t know why the FOX news item and an article (http://www.newarkadvocate.com/artic[…]football-job) in the Newark Advocate newspaper are mincing words about Daubenmire being fired from the Christian school. He was definitely fired and said so himself in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI2zqe3WiFE.

I would be shocked if Lakewood hired him. It is often so difficult and expensive for public schools to fire a teacher. Why take the chance on a guy with a history of troublemaking for Jesus? Also, Daubenmire is on record for repeatedly telling parents to get their kids out of the “government” schools. http://www.newswithviews.com/Dauben[…]/dave304.htm For Lakewood to hire someone with that attitude is crazy. I think Lakewood gave him an interview so he wouldn’t sue for discrimination or something - he has a history of filing lawsuits - and will hire another coach.

And please, for your own amusement, see Daub’s video defending Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty. He makes such an ass out of himself, I’d feel sorry for him if I wasn’t so busy laughing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_hLGNWEuw8

Grey Wolf said:

I don’t know why the FOX news item and an article (http://www.newarkadvocate.com/artic[…]football-job) in the Newark Advocate newspaper are mincing words about Daubenmire being fired from the Christian school. He was definitely fired and said so himself in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI2zqe3WiFE.

“Fax Gnus” has a history of deliberately misrepresenting, distorting and outright lies on subjects like these. So does Freshwater, but Fax Gnus is not “news” to be trusted, they’re outright biased on damn-near everything, in every broadcast, there’s a lie somewhere. Now, why was he outright fired? Was he “narcissistic”? Even Christian schools have standards then.

https://me.yahoo.com/a/OlqLV6l3tNPb[…]RZ.LslD2eROQ–#51bee said:

Grey Wolf said:

I don’t know why the FOX news item and an article (http://www.newarkadvocate.com/artic[…]football-job) in the Newark Advocate newspaper are mincing words about Daubenmire being fired from the Christian school. He was definitely fired and said so himself in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI2zqe3WiFE.

“Fax Gnus” has a history of deliberately misrepresenting, distorting and outright lies on subjects like these. So does Freshwater, but Fax Gnus is not “news” to be trusted, they’re outright biased on damn-near everything, in every broadcast, there’s a lie somewhere. Now, why was he outright fired? Was he “narcissistic”? Even Christian schools have standards then.

To be fair, local Fox stations aren’t always as bad as the national stuff. They tend to reflect local biases, and can be quite normal in some areas. The article doesn’t include this important information, but it is valuable that they reported this at all, and the article is hardly a gushing advertisement for Daubenmire. Whichever scheming wingnut administrator at Lakewood is trying to pull this off would have preferred to do so in secret. The inevitable result of publicity will be greater scrutiny of Daubemire’s record. Incidentally, no-one is an overall more intense critic of the Fox/Limbaugh propaganda arm of the extreme right than I am.

As for the firing by a religious school, this would be expected, and is largely why these types prey on public schools. I said it above in a long comment, but I’ll quote myself here, too. By the way, I wrote this not realizing that Daubenmire had already been fired by a religious school.

Here’s the main reason why these nuts always want to act out at a public school. It may be simpler than you think.

Religious schools already have their dogma and their hierarchy. Daubenmire and his ilk want to be Head Prophet of the Universe. If Coach shows up at some religious school, even some science-denying fundamentalist Bible camp school, it won’t be long before he runs afoul of their religious rules, and he knows it. But at a public school, he can be the only religion-pushing guy in town, as long as he can get away with it. That’s actually the real reason that narcissistic authoritarian wannabes gravitate to public schools. No competition from other religious “leaders”.

For a public school to hire Daubenmire would be insane.

You guys do recognize that Religious Reich types tend to think Gov’t-run schools are literally Godforsaken hellholes which have no right to exist, don’t you? I suspect that the ‘spectre’ of losing a First Amendment court case, and thereby saddling a Gov’t-run school with a megabuck-scale payout, the money of which would otherwise have been spent on (what they regard as) mis-educating innocent children, I can’t help but think that at least some Religious Reich types don’t mind in the least that they lose court cases allatime.

https://me.yahoo.com/a/OlqLV6l3tNPb[…]RZ.LslD2eROQ–#51bee said:

“Fax Gnus” has a history of deliberately misrepresenting, distorting and outright lies…

Framing Reminder:

Never use the term “Fox News” - always use the term “F-Word News”.

(Similarly, never use the term “intelligent design - always use the term “intelligent design creationism”. Never use the term “Discovery Institute” - always use the term “Dishonesty Institute”.)

Follow-up to my earlier comment…

As far as Creationists and other would-be Dominionists are concerned, forcing large amounts of money out of the coffers of public schools is a feature, not a bug. So for the plaintiffs of future lawsuits of this type, it might be worthwhile to consider the possibility of donating the court-ordered monies to the school which lost. Of course, you wouldn’t want to do this in a case where the relevant administrators are complicit up to their earlobes in cramming their Jesus down the throats of students. But if it’s a case of one teacher going off the First Amendment rails, and actively resisting any efforts the school administrators made to get them back within the limits of Constitutionally allowable actions? In that sort of case, it might make sense for the plaintiff to be content with the legal verdict, and not insist on the school taking a major financial hit on top of it.

I always find it interesting that there is, in some circles, a quasi-religious reverence for the Declaration of Independence, and yet the bit way up at the top about how, for securing rights, “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed” somehow is never quite read, marked, learned and inwardly digested. There is also that bit about “…it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…”

In fact these bold assertions seem to be somewhat inconsistent with Romans 13, which states that ALL governments are established by God and must be obeyed without question.

And is even further inconsistent with the oft-made assertion/assumption that Government is some sort of alien organism that has parasitically fastened itself, like a suckerfish, onto the Body Politick.

We, the People, establish a Public School system, but it is clearly tyrannical and Satanic (perhaps the Lizard People established it).

Hmm. Six impossible things before breakfast.

There is now a petition AGAINST the hiring of “Coach” Dave. Almost 3500 signatures. Those who think Daubenmire would be a poor choice for football coach at a public H.S. are encouraged to attend the Feb. 12 school board meeting. https://www.change.org/petitions/la[…]e-daubenmire

Once again, Daubenmire has riled up a community, and has attracted media attention to himself. He thrives on being in the center of a controversy. To Dave, negative attention is far better than no attention at all.

harold said:

Oh, by the way…why doesn’t Daubenmire try to coach at a religious school?

Here’s the main reason why these nuts always want to act out at a public school. It may be simpler than you think.

Religious schools already have their dogma and their hierarchy. Daubenmire and his ilk want to be Head Prophet of the Universe. If Coach shows up at some religious school, even some science-denying fundamentalist Bible camp school, it won’t be long before he runs afoul of their religious rules, and he knows it. But at a public school, he can be the only religion-pushing guy in town, as long as he can get away with it. That’s actually the real reason that narcissistic authoritarian wannabes gravitate to public schools. No competition from other religious “leaders”.

Like, for example, William Dembski’s behavior in Baylor University versus his behavior at Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary?

About this Entry

This page contains a single entry by Richard B. Hoppe published on January 22, 2014 11:57 AM.

Cancer Genomics Symposium was the previous entry in this blog.

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